Peter Sculthorpe (1929 - 2014)

[Mirror Image]

Well, at least he didn't say the medium of classical music has been exhausted. Hehee...

Agree that is a rather ... uh ... remark... especially considering the dude does listen to quite a bit of fairly new music.

But I know what you mean, John. But the same opinion was aired a hundred years ago and aren't we glad they were wrong?

Yeah, but I don't hear a lot of composers taking up the symphony. I mean Carl Vine is still writing symphonies. MacMillan has written a few, but it seems like not many composers want to write symphonies. My point really had more to do with Sculthorpe and how he had to create his own unique sound which meant letting go of classical forms, but interestingly enough he did still hang onto the string quartet and has composed 18 (?) of them now.

[springrite]

Dude, that would be rad. The world can never have too many symphonies. 

But it already has too many fanfares and odes.

[Mirror Image]

edited Let's back to Sculthorpe. Paul, what did you think of Earth Cry?

[Mirror Image]

If any learners of the English language wants clarification of the difference between the word cry and weep, now they know.

So you liked it?

[springrite]

So you liked it?

Yes, sir!

[Mirror Image]

Yes, sir!

As a former percussionist, Earth Cry sounds like it would be really fun to perform.

[Karl Henning]

My whole point is that composers today just don't seem like they're attracted to the symphonic form. There's a reason why composers don't feel compelled to write symphonies and there can only be two reasons why: 1. they feel they have nothing they could add to the tradition or 2. they simply just don't want to write one because they're not attracted to the genre.

But your remark that "composers don't feel compelled to write symphonies" is an error, John; James Levine & the BSO commissioned Wuorinen's Eighth Symphony and played it in 2006.

Personally, I do feel drawn to the genre, and I am keen to see if I may, indeed, have something to add.

You might have said the same thing about the choral Passion, John, a piece which I wrote, perfectly well convinced that I had something to add.

[Leon]

I had no idea that a thread devoted to a composer I've never heard of could have sparked such a lively discussion!



I guess it's time I Spotified him.

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One of the things I love about Sculthorpe's music is it's sense of narrative. He always seems to have a story of some kind to tell. This is even true with his concertante works like the Piano Concerto, Cello Dreaming, and Nourlangie. This aspect of his music keeps me coming back because depending on whether I'm ready for the music or not doesn't really matter because the story seems like it's always different and I'm always finding something new that I hadn't quite heard previously.

[eyeresist]

So program music beats classical forms? It's Liszt's "New Music" movement all over again!

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Glad to see this thread back! Now back to Sculthorpe's Piano Concerto, what do you guys think about it?

[calyptorhynchus]

One of the things I admire about Sculthorpe is the fact he didn't write any symphonies or ever felt the need to. I mean this medium has been exhausted IMHO and I'm sure Sculthorpe has purposely avoided it because he knew there was nothing he could say that hasn't been said already.

Well rumour has it that Sculthorpe has been commissioned to write a symphony to be premiered in 2015 on anniversary of Gallipolli. Who knows, perhaps after this he will start a series of symphonies in old age, like Havergal Brian!

[Karl Henning]

So program music beats classical forms? It's Liszt's "New Music" movement all over again!

Good catch!

[Mirror Image]

Well rumour has it that Sculthorpe has been commissioned to write a symphony to be premiered in 2015 on anniversary of Gallipolli. Who knows, perhaps after this he will start a series of symphonies in old age, like Havergal Brian!

Wouldn't that be something? You have to remember that Sculthorpe is 84 years old right now. I do hope he composes some symphonies. That would be great!

[lescamil]

Sculthorpe is more of a tone poem composer, and I doubt he will ever write a symphony in the traditional sense. He is sort of the Strauss of our day in Australia, maybe. I think he will just crank out another large tone poem (maybe multi movement) without calling it 'symphony' (unless he appends another title to the name 'symphony', like Strauss's Sinfonia Domestica).

Glad to see this thread back! Now back to Sculthorpe's Piano Concerto, what do you guys think about it?

His piano concerto is one of my favorites, but it is one of those pieces that needs a convincing recording. I feel like I have said this before. I've heard just about all of the commercial recordings, and they all lack something. The one on Naxos is perhaps the best one I have heard. Anyways, the actual piece is something rather unique in the concerto literature, in that it is difficult, but not virtuosic in the traditional sense. I really enjoy concertos in that mold, personally.

[Mirror Image]

Sculthorpe is more of a tone poem composer, and I doubt he will ever write a symphony in the traditional sense. He is sort of the Strauss of our day in Australia, maybe. I think he will just crank out another large tone poem (maybe multi movement) without calling it 'symphony' (unless he appends another title to the name 'symphony', like Strauss's Sinfonia Domestica).

His piano concerto is one of my favorites, but it is one of those pieces that needs a convincing recording. I feel like I have said this before. I've heard just about all of the commercial recordings, and they all lack something. The one on Naxos is perhaps the best one I have heard. Anyways, the actual piece is something rather unique in the concerto literature, in that it is difficult, but not virtuosic in the traditional sense. I really enjoy concertos in that mold, personally.

Would you say that Sculthorpe's Piano Concerto is more rhapsodic than an actual showpiece for the piano? I've never felt like any of the Sculthorpe concertante works were a showcase for the solo instrument but rather an integrated part of the orchestra. Again, there's a narrative to the music that I find personally refreshing. I only own the Naxos recording of the PC, but I'm quite satisfied with the performance as a whole.

[lescamil]

The piano concerto's piano part doesn't seem integrated into the orchestra, to me. The orchestra functions pretty well as an accompaniment, and the piano part is very idiomatic and unmistakeably soloistic. It doesn't seem like a showpiece at all, though. The piece seems more interested in making a musical point rather than just being virtuosic. Within Sculthorpe's language, it seems almost impossible for him to write a virtuosic showpiece in the Romantic, perhaps Rachmaninoff or Liszt-like way.

[Mirror Image]

Within Sculthorpe's language, it seems almost impossible for him to write a virtuosic showpiece in the Romantic, perhaps Rachmaninoff or Liszt-like way.

A composer doesn't need to write in a Romantic language in order to be virtuosic. Look at the difficulties of the Ligeti or even Lindberg PCs.

[lescamil]

A composer doesn't need to write in a Romantic language in order to be virtuosic. Look at the difficulties of the Ligeti or even Lindberg PCs.

Oh, I know that quite well, but I simply threw out those names for extremes of comparison. Still, I don't think that Sculthorpe is able to write a piece that can be called a 'truly virtuosic showpiece concerto' or whatever you want to call it. Nourlangie, Cello Dreaming, Irkanda IV, the Piano Concerto, etc are all very low key, meditative works that have very difficult parts, but can't be called virtuoso works in the traditional sense.

[Mirror Image]

Oh, I know that quite well, but I simply threw out those names for extremes of comparison. Still, I don't think that Sculthorpe is able to write a piece that can be called a 'truly virtuosic showpiece concerto' or whatever you want to call it. Nourlangie, Cello Dreaming, Irkanda IV, the Piano Concerto, etc are all very low key, meditative works that have very difficult parts, but can't be called virtuoso works in the traditional sense.

I understand. I'd love to learn Nourlangie. I'm a guitarist.