Alban Berg's Violin Concerto

[Mirror Image]

   

I want to dedicate this thread to the haunting beauty of Berg's Violin Concerto. This work still confounds me, but still gives me a lot of emotional satisfaction. I own three versions of this concerto now, but my introduction to this work was Anne Sophie Mutter's recording with James Levine and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. I think Mutter and Levine got inside of this work better than anyone. Everybody will have their preferences for recordings, but my heart remains with Mutter's and Levine's interpretations.

The story behind this work is also one of great speculation. Everybody knows that much of its inspiration came from the untimely death of Alma Mahler's daughter hence why the work is inscribed "To the memory of an angel." There are apparently some other things that hidden in this work as well. Things about Berg's own life and something about numerology. I'm not sure how much of this true or not, but one listen to this concerto will reveal a man who was in turmoil and anguish.

I would like to hear everybody's thoughts on this work. How were you introduced to it? Do you still return to it?

[Sid]

I've got Isaac Stern's accounts with the NYPO under Bernstein & it's pretty good. I also love Schoenberg's Violin Concerto - what a journey! It's a pity that the third guy in the triumvirate, Webern, didn't write a work in this genre.

As I said in the Berg thread, it's wierd how just as Berg was composing the piece, he wrote to his publishers to send him a Bach score. They happened to send him the exact work (Cantata No. 60) that he was beginning to quote at the end of the concerto. Somehow, it had already gotten into his subconscious (very Freudian?).

[Mirror Image]

I've got Isaac Stern's accounts with the NYPO under Bernstein & it's pretty good. I also love Schoenberg's Violin Concerto - what a journey! It's a pity that the third guy in the triumvirate, Webern, didn't write a work in this genre.

As I said in the Berg thread, it's wierd how just as Berg was composing the piece, he wrote to his publishers to send him a Bach score. They happened to send him the exact work (Cantata No. 60) that he was beginning to quote at the end of the concerto. Somehow, it had already gotten into his subconscious (very Freudian?).

Personally, I'm not too keen on Schoenberg's Violin Concerto. For me, it doesn't contain much of a narrative between the soloist and the orchestra. Berg's concerto, however, is very dark, tortured work. It's the kind of piece that I find myself drawn to even more everytime I hear it. I prefer the Mutter and Levine in this concerto because I don't think any other partnership were on the same page. I need to go back and listen to the Boulez again as I heard many people enjoy it. Stern has never been a violinist I cared much about and Ozawa is, for me, a complete bore in this concerto.

Anyway, Sid, I'm more interested in finding out which sections purtain to Berg's own life. I know there's a Carinthian folk melody towards the beginning of the first movement that he had heard when he was a boy and of course most people know about the Bach chorale in the second movement. But to my ears, there's so much mystery surrounding this gorgeous score. I read that the Carinthian folk melody quoted also had something to do with one of his loves.

Andre, if you haven't read this, then please take a look at it sometime:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_Concerto_(Berg))

[bhodges]

I'm a huge fan of Berg in general--he's one of my "three B's": Bartók, Berg and Britten.  The Mutter/Levine recording of the Violin Concerto is probably my favorite, with Levine an inspired Berg advocate, and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra sounding magnificent.  (Caveat: there are a number of recordings of the piece I haven't heard.)

For me, it only seems to grow in intrigue with each hearing.  I've been lucky to hear it live a number of times, most recently a few years ago with Christian Tetzlaff, James Levine and the MET Orchestra.  Tetzlaff has performed the piece a lot (I think, judging from reviews), and I only hope he decides to record it at some point.

--Bruce

[Mirror Image]

I'm a huge fan of Berg in general--he's one of my "three B's": Bartók, Berg and Britten.  The Mutter/Levine recording of the Violin Concerto is probably my favorite, with Levine an inspired Berg advocate, and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra sounding magnificent.  (Caveat: there are a number of recordings of the piece I haven't heard.)

For me, it only seems to grow in intrigue with each hearing.  I've been lucky to hear it live a number of times, most recently a few years ago with Christian Tetzlaff, James Levine and the MET Orchestra.  Tetzlaff has performed the piece a lot (I think, judging from reviews), and I only hope he decides to record it at some point.

--Bruce

You've seen it live with Levine? Oh you lucky little devil....

It's interesting I have my three B's as well: Brahms, Bruckner, and Bartok. I have only recently become an avid fan of Berg, so perhaps he'll knock off Brahms before too long. Nobody will ever knock off Bruckner or Bartok for me though. I'm head-over-hills in love with their music.   I do enjoy Britten a lot as well.

Getting back to Berg, Bruce, let me ask you question: do you buy into all mysterious that surround this concerto or do you believe a lot of it is just hogwash?

[bhodges]

You've seen it live with Levine? Oh you lucky little devil....

It's interesting I have my three B's as well: Brahms, Bruckner, and Bartok. I have only recently become an avid fan of Berg, so perhaps he'll knock off Brahms before too long. Nobody will ever knock off Bruckner or Bartok for me though. I'm head-over-hills in love with their music.   I do enjoy Britten a lot as well.

Getting back to Berg, Bruce, let me ask you question: do you buy into all mysterious that surround this concerto or do you believe a lot of it is just hogwash?

Bruckner and Brahms would both be very close to making my "three B's" as well--Bruckner, especially.  But I don't think I've ever heard a piece by Brahms I didn't like.

As far as the Berg Violin Concerto, I just like it, purely as music--no other agenda is involved.  It makes me feel human and alive when I hear it (and I just listened to the entire piece on YouTube, with Leonid Kogan).  The Bach quotations, in this context, are terribly moving, too. 

--Bruce

[Luke]

I must have dozens of recordings of this piece - but the only one I ever tend to listen to, for all its sonic inadequacy, is the one on Testament, Loius Krasner (for whom the piece was written) as soloist, Webern as conductor, in the piece's 2nd performance, shortly after Berg had died. No there is a performance from right inside the score. It's scorchingly, searingly emotional, that one.

BTW, yes, the Carinthian folksong is a cryptographic allusion to a lover of Berg's - I think she was a family servant or something similar.

[Sid]

Well, Luke, if that is true, then this is yet another work which alludes to a love affair Berg had (the other, of course, being the Lyric Suite). He seemed to be a "ladies man" indeed.

Re the Schoenberg concerto, I think that there is just as much drama and tension in that as the Berg (especially the final movement), but two things count against this work as compared to the Berg (in audiences minds?). 1. It is the most difficult concerto to play in the repertoire (or definitely one of them?), 2. There is no "resolution" at the end, Berg ends in tranquility and comes full circle (the "tuning up" segment returns), but the Schoenberg ends up asking more questions than can be comfortably answered. Hilary Hahn has made the Schoenberg concerto her own, and if she comes down under to play it, guess who the first person will be to rush & buy tickets? (No prizes!)

By the way, if people like Berg's (or Schoenberg's) violin concertos, I'd suggest they hear Henze's 3 violin concertos (especially the 1st). Henze was heavily influenced (and indebted two) the two other masters, and of course, he was carrying on the European pantonal/serial tradition. The first concerto I consider to be the most accessible, but it has many solo cadenzas, which to me suggest loneliness and desolation (Henze had been conscripted as a teenager into the German army during WW2). The colourings of the violin and the orchestra remind me of the above two, as well as of Stravinsky (in parts)...

[Luke]

Well, Luke, if that is true, then this is yet another work which alludes to a love affair Berg had (the other, of course, being the Lyric Suite). He seemed to be a "ladies man" indeed.

No, it's definitely true; all these cryptographic references in Berg's scores are beyond doubt, nowadays. IIRC - haven't read Jarman for a while - this servant girl wasn't so much a long-term lover of Berg's as a youthful indiscretion, but significant nevertheless. The affair with Hanna Fuchs-Robettin, commemorated much more fully and extensively in the Lyric Suite, was a more serious thing

[karlhenning]

I must have dozens of recordings of this piece - but the only one I ever tend to listen to, for all its sonic inadequacy, is the one on Testament, Loius Krasner (for whom the piece was written) as soloist, Webern as conductor, in the piece's 2nd performance, shortly after Berg had died. No there is a performance from right inside the score. It's scorchingly, searingly emotional, that one.

BTW, yes, the Carinthian folksong is a cryptographic allusion to a lover of Berg's - I think she was a family servant or something similar.

Argh, and a friend of mine from the MFA has lent me that Krasner/Webern recording . . . need to scare it up, and actually listen to it . . . .

A magnificent piece, which almost seems as if it oughtn't to work, with the juxtaposition of elements, the 'straddling' of musical aesthetics, but whose artistic perfection silences the question.

I feel equally enthusiastic about the Schoenberg Vn Cto, BTW, though it does not 'benefit' from the rich layer of extramusical allusion.  I never know quite what to say to someone who thinks less highly of the Schoenberg (or any other 'purer' piece of music) because it doesn't have those extramusical pegs . . . .

In all events, the Berg was introduced to me when I was a mere slip of an undergrad, many years ago, and (like the Chamber Cto) I fell for it immediately like a ton of atonal bricks.

[Mirror Image]

Re the Schoenberg concerto, I think that there is just as much drama and tension in that as the Berg (especially the final movement), but two things count against this work as compared to the Berg (in audiences minds?). 1. It is the most difficult concerto to play in the repertoire (or definitely one of them?), 2. There is no "resolution" at the end, Berg ends in tranquility and comes full circle (the "tuning up" segment returns), but the Schoenberg ends up asking more questions than can be comfortably answered. Hilary Hahn has made the Schoenberg concerto her own, and if she comes down under to play it, guess who the first person will be to rush & buy tickets? (No prizes!)

This is a good way to put it. I'm not opposed to the Schoenberg Violin Concerto, I just enjoy Berg's music more and I love the way combines 12-tone technique with more tonal passages. I think he's brilliant at this.

[DavidRoss]

The advocacy of so many I respect suggests I'd best give Berg's VC another go--perhaps the Kogan performance on youtube that Bruce enjoyed...?

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the work is full of non-serial elements woven into the texture like that.

Which is one reason I love it. Music doesn't have to be such an intellectual process that we forget about the emotion. Berg's Violin Concerto is an emotional work and I think it's absolutely brilliant the way he weaved tonal/atonal ideas in and out of each other. His music is lyrical and heartfelt, but it is also highly intellectual, but I feel that Schoenberg and Webern did not achieve the kind of beauty that Berg was able to, but, of course, this could be debated all day long, which I'm not going to do. This is just my opinion.

This said, I challenge people who are into tonal music and nothing else to give this Berg concerto a chance. Approach it with an open-mind. Are you reading this Teresa? 

[bhodges]

The advocacy of so many I respect suggests I'd best give Berg's VC another go--perhaps the Kogan performance on youtube that Bruce enjoyed...?

PS, for what it's worth, I'd never heard Kogan's version before I heard it two days ago.  Didn't have the Mutter/Levine handy, and Kogan's was the first complete one I stumbled into on YouTube.   But it will do very nicely.

--Bruce

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PS, for what it's worth, I'd never heard Kogan's version before I heard it two days ago.  Didn't have the Mutter/Levine handy, and Kogan's was the first complete one I stumbled into on YouTube.   But it will do very nicely.

--Bruce

But if one wants to own a recording of this work then the Mutter/Levine is a must!

[Daverz]

But if one wants to own a recording of this work then the Mutter/Levine is a must!

I dunno, I think I prefer Grumiaux.  This is still a tough work for me, though.  Not "Elliot Carter tough", but I'm still not sure I've learned to love it.

OOPS: I mean Szeryng.  I do have Grumiaux on LP.

[val]

I still prefer the version of Josef Suk and Karel Ancerl. It respects the structure of the work and has a deeply touching emotion, but never sentimental. The sound of Suk's violin is beautiful, very "pure" ...

[DavidRoss]

PS, for what it's worth, I'd never heard Kogan's version before I heard it two days ago.  Didn't have the Mutter/Levine handy, and Kogan's was the first complete one I stumbled into on YouTube.   But it will do very nicely.

But if one wants to own a recording of this work then the Mutter/Levine is a must!

The Kogan was fine, Bruce, but (as usual with this piece) failed to engage me emotionally or physically.  Later I played Mutter/Levine, whose tendencies toward lush, Romantic expressiveness serve this piece as well as any I've heard.  Perhaps later still I'll give Daniel Hope's recent recording another spin with Mutter relatively fresh in mind.

[Guido]

This piece is one of my blindspots - I can hear it is a work of some considerable quality, but emotionally it does very little for me. Sort of surprising as its essentially the only atonal warhorse concerto... but there are so many other pieces by Berg and Schoenberg that I like more.

[Sergeant Rock]

Anyway, Sid, I'm more interested in finding out which sections purtain to Berg's own life. I know there's a Carinthian folk melody towards the beginning of the first movement that he had heard when he was a boy and of course most people know about the Bach chorale in the second movement. But to my ears, there's so much mystery surrounding this gorgeous score. I read that the Carinthian folk melody quoted also had something to do with one of his loves.

The Corinthian folk song is quoted near the end of the first movement not the beginning--it starts around 10:10 (horns) in the Mutter recording, with the theme passed off to the trumpet at 10:30). It alludes to an affair Berg had with a servant girl in the family's summer house when he was a teen. The numerology you mentioned earlier is indicated by the prominence in the second movement of the numbers 23, which Berg associated with himself, and 10, his lover Hanna Fuchs-Robettin. I don't know what that means though. My source didn't explain. Perhaps someone with a knowledge of the score and composing can help us out: Luke? Karl? Anyway, it may mean that this farewell, this "requiem," is not just for Manon Gropius but for Hanna.

I too would probably take Mutter/Levine to the desert island (primarily for her gorgeous tonal colors). But really, I do not want to be without several others: Watanabe and Sinopoli are just as passionately romantic, perhaps even more so at some points. I prefer the way they play the folk song, with Watanabe fading into the background and the trumpet coming very prominently to the fore; Sinopoli urging the Staatskapelle Dresden into some heartbreaking rubato. Szeryng/Kubelik are more urgent tempo-wise but more restrained emotionally, which works really well too. Boulez/Zukerman, on paper, shouldn't work (they are such opposite characters: the cold, logical modernist; the schmaltzy romantic) but I love their performance (it has the most affecting cover too: a portrait of angel Manon).



Sarge