Alban Berg's Violin Concerto

[CRCulver]

This piece is one of my blindspots - I can hear it is a work of some considerable quality, but emotionally it does very little for me. Sort of surprising as its essentially the only atonal warhorse concerto... but there are so many other pieces by Berg and Schoenberg that I like more.

The piece's status as the "only atonal warhorse concerto" must be a North American thing. In Europe I've seen Schoenberg's Piano Concerto played more often, and drawing more of a subscriber audience.

[karlhenning]

The piece's status as the "only atonal warhorse concerto" must be a North American thing.

Probably fair.

[DavidRoss]

The piece's status as the "only atonal warhorse concerto" must be a North American thing. In Europe I've seen Schoenberg's Piano Concerto played more often, and drawing more of a subscriber audience.

I wasn't aware that ANY atonal works were sufficiently beloved or played frequently enough to attain "warhorse" status, in the U.S. or elsewhere.  Guess we should add "warhorse" to the growing list of terms needing clear definition before discussing.

[Sergeant Rock]

The piece's status as the "only atonal warhorse concerto" must be a North American thing. In Europe I've seen Schoenberg's Piano Concerto played more often, and drawing more of a subscriber audience.

My experience in Europe is completely the opposite: I rarely see the Schoenbeg PC on a program (who's playing it? There are very few recordings). The Berg is everywhere, though.

Sarge

[jhar26]

I really like the Berg Violin concerto. Like Mirror Image I love the Mutter/Levine recording but I have no other version to compare it with.

[Mirror Image]

The Corinthian folk song is quoted near the end of the first movement not the beginning--it starts around 10:10 (horns) in the Mutter recording, with the theme passed off to the trumpet at 10:30). It alludes to an affair Berg had with a servant girl in the family's summer house when he was a teen. The numerology you mentioned earlier is indicated by the prominence in the second movement of the numbers 23, which Berg associated with himself, and 10, his lover Hanna Fuchs-Robettin. I don't know what that means though. My source didn't explain. Perhaps someone with a knowledge of the score and composing can help us out: Luke? Karl? Anyway, it may mean that this farewell, this "requiem," is not just for Manon Gropius but for Hanna.

I too would probably take Mutter/Levine to the desert island (primarily for her gorgeous tonal colors). But really, I do not want to be without several others: Watanabe and Sinopoli are just as passionately romantic, perhaps even more so at some points. I prefer the way they play the folk song, with Watanabe fading into the background and the trumpet coming very prominently to the fore; Sinopoli urging the Staatskapelle Dresden into some heartbreaking rubato. Szeryng/Kubelik are more urgent tempo-wise but more restrained emotionally, which works really well too. Boulez/Zukerman, on paper, shouldn't work (they are such opposite characters: the cold, logical modernist; the schmaltzy romantic) but I love their performance (it has the most affecting cover too: a portrait of angel Manon).



Sarge

Thanks for the information and the correction on the Corinthian folk song quote.

I own three versions of the Berg Violin Concerto: Mutter/Levine, Watanabe/Sinopoli, and Zukerman/Boulez, but I haven't heard the Watanabe yet. I'm probably going to hear these on Monday or Tuesday. My listening schedule is pretty tied up at the moment.

[abidoful]

Yeah, it's one of my all time favourites. I've heard many recordings of it, including the "legendary" KRASNER-WEBERN one, but my favourite one is -still- the one I heard first: MENUHIN- BOULEZ.

I was once so "obsessed" with this work that had to study the score. It's so nostalgic, sort of his testament and farewell to life- one of my favourite bits are those two places where he uses that Corinthian folk song.

[mjwal]

Have you all noticed that false meme effect kicking in? Everybody is now writing "Corinthian". Soon there will be theses on the subject of ancient Corinthian modes and their ghostly presence in Berg's Violin Concerto. The word "Carinthian" is derived from the region of Kärnten, a former duchy of Mittel-Europa bordering on Italy and Slovenia.
The most illuminating recordings, in my subjective view - and I don't know the Krasner/Webern:
Krasner/Busch
Szigeti/Mitropoulos
Gitlis/Strickland
Grumiaux/Markevitch
Suk/Ancerl
I have heard the Stern/Bernstein and the Szeryng/Kubelik. Shrugs. And the much touted Mutter/Levine monstrosity (gags - I cannot stand anything she does).  What else has there been? (Menuhin couldn't cut it.) One horror will be spared us: Kennedy, or Nige as his mates call 'im, with the Hyde Park Promenade Orchestra conducted by Edward Heath (RIP).
I agree that the extra-musical stories involved are of secondary interest - back in the 70s when it was all coming out it seemed wildly exciting. But Schoenberg's concerto is at least as rich and inexhaustible. I am with the supporters of Ms.Hahn here - I saw/heard her perform this back in 2002 (?) and was transported. Her recording was not quite as thrilling but still - none of the others known to me, even Krasner's with Mitropoulos, can compete.

[Mirror Image]

in my subjective view

Yes, definitely in your own subjective view. You may hate Mutter, but her recording with Levine is definitely the best performance I've heard of this concerto. Never have I heard such a great balance between soloist and orchestra in a recording of this concerto. Absolutely BRILLIANT performance!!! And I'm certainly not the only one who feels this way.

[Franco]

I have the Mutter/Levine Berg in the big Berg box and find it a very good performance, but as to it being the best, I can't say.

This looks interesting to me, since I like everything I've heard from Gidon Kremer.

[Mirror Image]

I have the Mutter/Levine Berg in the big Berg box and find it a very good performance, but as to it being the best, I can't say.

This looks interesting to me, since I like everything I've heard from Gidon Kremer.

I'm not impressed with Kremer's playing that much and Colin Davis conducting just seems like a misfire to me. I don't need to hear it.

[karlhenning]

I'm not impressed with Kremer's playing that much and Colin Davis conducting just seems like a misfire to me. I don't need to hear it.

What if they might surprise you?

[karlhenning]

This looks interesting to me, since I like everything I've heard from Gidon Kremer.

Likewise; thanks for the alert!

[Mirror Image]

What if they might surprise you?

I doubt they will surprise me, Karl. I have heard enough from both Kremer and Davis to know what they are capable of and I suppose my own jaded views of both of these musicians shrouds my view of this particular performance.


That said, this DVD does contain what maybe an interesting documentary about Berg called The Secret Life of Alban Berg. That might be interesting to watch.

[DavidRoss]

Lucky is the man who recognizes his prejudices for what they are.  Luckier still the one who recognizes their cost.

[Mirror Image]

Lucky is the man who recognizes his prejudices for what they are.  Luckier still the one who recognizes their cost.

Wise words, but since I have found my favorite performance what left now is for me to listen and listen again to the music. So far I have heard this concerto probably around 20-25 times in the past three months.

[Sid]

I don't think anything is definitive, there is no "best" recording of anything. One performance may work for one person, another might work for another.

I've got Stern's peformance of Berg's Violin Concerto & it works for me. I'm not hung up about any particular performance, life's too short, I'm just for enjoying the music as my first priority, the nature of the performance comes way after that for me.

On the same disc, there is also the Chamber Concerto, a less "open and shut" type of work than the Violin Concerto. I'm gearing up to see this live here in Sydney in October. This work seems to ask more questions than it can answer. I can also hear snippets of Wozzeck in there, but I could be wrong. This is a much quirkier work, it also has elements of the Viennese waltz, but quite grotesquely. I think it is quite a joyous work, celebrating the friendship between Berg, Schoenberg & Webern, but the ending, with some wierd sounds from the woodwind and violin soloist doesn't seem to resolve anything. That's fine with me, I like quirky, wierd and unresolved music!

[karlhenning]

I've got that disc, too, Sid.  The Violin Concerto is conducted by Lenny, the Kammerkonzert by Abbado (and IIRC Peter Serkin is the pianist).  A good performance, more 'warmth' in some ways than the performance in the DG Berg Box (conducted by Boulez).  I like both recordings, different in character though they be.  Like yourself, I don't think there's any such thing as a single greatest recording of any work.  The artwork is larger than any one interpretation of it.

You'll love it live!  We heard it here in Boston a season or two ago.  Great piece, though not one to be fully assimilated on a hearing or two.

[Mirror Image]

I'm not hung up about any particular performance, life's too short, I'm just for enjoying the music as my first priority, the nature of the performance comes way after that for me.

I'm not hung up on a particular performance either, but there are always those exceptions for me. In my opinion, Mutter/Levine really did an outstanding job with this concerto and their feelings and expressions really come through in this interpretation. For me, they made this work their own and I think for anyone to dismiss this recording, because they don't like Mutter is simply missing the point, which comes back to the music. They played the music and made ME believe it. I think for musicians to do that is a great thing.

I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying a recording more than another one if you're moved by it. It's all subjective. I just happen to have been more moved by the Mutter/Levine recording than any other. Again, it just strikes the right balance that no other recording seems to be able to match.

[Sid]

Yes, Karl, I am looking forward to seeing the Chamber Concerto live, it's not a work that's played often, especially here in Australia. & Mirror Image, it's good if that particular recording has made you come closer to understanding Berg. Some people don't understand (or want to?) this type of music at all, whatever the performance. I have liked Berg ever since reading about then hearing his Wozzeck as a teenager. Something - the drama, directness, the vivid colours, etc. - made his style immediately resonate with me. I recently got the Stern/Bernstein/Abbado recording of the Violin Concerto & Chamber Concerto because the coupling suited me. I wanted both concertos on the one disc. & as Karl says, it's a fine interpretation, and Stern was really at home in playing C20th concertos. Of course, that doesn't negate other violinists' fine interpretations of the work as well...