Political Matrix

[Scarpia]

Read this article and be informed:

http://scienceblog.com/cms/americans-still-linking-blacks-apes-15428.html

The article says that some idiotic Americans link blacks with apes.  You said that "scientists" believe this, which is absurd. 

[Josquin des Prez]

In the first place, there is no clear scientific or genetic basis for the concept of race.

Then explain this:

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/61169/title/Genetics_may_underlie_some_kidney_failure_in_blacks
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1993074,00.html?artId=1993074?contType=article?chn=sciHealth

[Philoctetes]

The article says that some idiotic Americans link blacks with apes.  You said that "scientists" believe this, which is absurd.

Why would you even waste your time? There are lots of good posters in the thread who would be better served with your wasting time on them. Just saying.

Like me. I enjoy your posts where your breath isn't wasted. Just saying.

[Saul]

The article says that some idiotic Americans link blacks with apes.  You said that "scientists" believe this, which is absurd.

Again if you need actual names read this and be informed:

Charles Darwin (along with Thomas Huxley) was openly racist (Milton 1997:186,277). Human evolution had no evidence in support except observed "similarity" to living apes (Wells 2000:216). After rejecting God AS the Creator, Darwin and company THEN "saw" the "similarity" between Africans and apes, hence the idea of human evolution was conceived.

The origin of the idea that humans evolved came about when the God of the Bible was rejected, THEN from this departure, Darwin and his cohorts "saw" the "similarity" and the theory was born - out of their racist minds. Notice AFTER God is rejected then racist human evolution theory developed.

Benjamin Wiker said that according to Darwin, the European race, following the inevitable laws of natural selection, will emerge as the distinct species, human being, and all the transitional forms—such as the gorilla, chimpanzee, Negro, Australian aborigine and so on—will be extinct (Wiker 2002:250).

John C. Burhan:

Before 1859 (before Darwin's Origin), many scientists had questioned whether blacks were of the same species as whites, but they had no scientific basis for that notion. Things changed once Darwin presented his racist evolutionary schema. Darwin stated that African-Americans could not survive competition with their white near-relations, let alone being able to compete with the white race. According to Darwin, the African was inferior because he represented the missing-link" between ape and Teuton. (Burham 1972:506)."

http://creationwiki.org/Darwin_himself_was_racist

[Scarpia]

Then explain this:

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/61169/title/Genetics_may_underlie_some_kidney_failure_in_blacks
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1993074,00.html?artId=1993074?contType=article?chn=sciHealth

There is no doubt that different races share certain genetic elements, most obviously for skin pigment and other characteristics.  However, overall genetic variation among members of a race is large compared with genetic variation between different racial groups, which makes genetic difference between races superficial.   

[Josquin des Prez]

You  therefore must choose, what you believe in, the Bible and therefore you should consider all people regardless of their looks as your flesh and blood brothers and sisters who share an ancient historical father and mother.

Yeah, except for Jews, who appear to be more "equal" then other in the eyes of God.

Francis Parker Yockey classified race as the following:

WE ATTAIN NOW to the grand formula of the 20th century outlook on Race: Race is a horizontal differentiation of men. The materialism of the 19th century, confusing race with anatomy, regarded Race as a vertical differentiation of men. It was "abstract"--away from Reality--and started from the will-to-systematize, rather than from quiet contemplation of the living facts. Such contemplation was made difficult for them by the existence of political nationalism, which tried to build walls of all kinds between the Western races and peoples.

But had they been able to pierce through to a view of the facts, these materialists would have seen that the races of Europe were the creations of History and not a mere continuation of the aboriginal material that was present in 900 A.D., before the beginning of high History in this area. Viewing the process of creation of races, they would have seen the far greater significance of Race in the subjective sense than in the objective sense. For it is always men of race that create the deeds of History, and the units they are leading are of secondary importance.

The attempt to create a vertical system of races was Apollonian--it was an effort of the intellect. Actually Race has the primary meaning of presence of strong cosmic rhythm--a Dionysian meaning.

Thus, race can be understood from a metaphysical point of view, which is where it matters most. However, because the metaphysical manifestation of race is tied to identity, and since identity is build upon a vertical differentiation of mankind, racial mixing can eventually lead to the destruction of any metaphysical manifestation within a given race. When speaking of the European races, the manifestation of the spiritual essence of those races is western civilization. Thus, as the invading foreign elements currently spreading out into our ancestral lands grow bigger and bigger, so too will our racial manifestation diminish, until one day there won't be nothing left of western civilization other then a dim memory. Our history, our arts, our accomplishments. Everything will just disappear in the dust bin of history.

[Saul]

Then explain this:

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/61169/title/Genetics_may_underlie_some_kidney_failure_in_blacks
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1993074,00.html?artId=1993074?contType=article?chn=sciHealth

Prez,

If you believe in Races, then you should drop been a believer of the bible.
You can't believe the bible and 'races, you must choose.

[Scarpia]

Again if you need actual names read this and be informed:

You said "still believe."  These scientific speculations are 150 years old and were abandoned when they were properly investigated.

[Josquin des Prez]

There is no doubt that different races share certain genetic elements, most obviously for skin pigment and other characteristics.  However, overall genetic variation among members of a race is large compared with genetic variation between different racial groups, which makes genetic difference between races superficial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewontin%27s_Fallacy

These scientific speculations are 150 years old and were abandoned when they were properly investigated.

You mean these scientific speculations were abandoned as soon as the political landscape became averse to such theories.

[Saul]

Yeah, except for Jews, who appear to be more "equal" then other in the eyes of God.

Francis Parker Yockey classified race as the following:

Thus, race can be understood from a metaphysical point of view, which is where it matters most. However, because the metaphysical manifestation of race is tied to identity, and since identity is build upon a vertical differentiation of mankind, racial mixing can eventually lead to the destruction of any metaphysical manifestation within a given race. When speaking of the European races, the manifestation of the spiritual essence of those races is western civilization. Thus, as the invading foreign elements currently spreading out into our ancestral lands grow bigger and bigger, so too will our racial manifestation diminish, until one day there won't be nothing left of western civilization other then a dim memory. Our history, our arts, our accomplishments. Everything will just disappear in the dust bin of history.

Absolute nonsense.

The first human being Adam didn't belong to any particular 'race'.

Also Abraham wasn't chosen because he was 'white' or 'black, but because he was a saint, a righteous servant of God, that's why he and his descendants were blessed, not because the Jews belong to one particular race or another.

Get your facts straight, and snap out of this racist nonsense, they lead to only one end, death, misery and hopelessness.

Love your fellow human being, love is the key, respect others, believe that God created every human being in his image, and stop the hate, cause it always leads to misfortune.

[Saul]

You said "still believe."  These scientific speculations are 150 years old and were abandoned when they were properly investigated.

Trust me some still believe it. Dont be naive.

[Scarpia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewontin%27s_Fallacy

The only thing disputed is whether use of sophisticated correlations among genetic variations can be used to distinguish between different races.  Of course they can.  National Geographic will even let you send in a DNA sample and identify which aboriginal population your ancestors came from.  That does not change the fact that genetic variation within a "race" is very large compared the the genetic difference between "races."  In that sense races are not distinct.

[Scarpia]

Trust me some still believe it. Dont be naive.

As I said.  Uneducated idiots, not scientists. 

And with that, my participation in this infantile bickering is at an end. 

[Josquin des Prez]

That does not change the fact that genetic variation within a "race" is very large compared the the genetic difference between "races."  In that sense races are not distinct.

You still don't get it. By your argument, the fact Berlioz was as different from Chopin as he was from Haydn means there is no such thing as a classical style and a romantic style. That is the nature of the fallacy.

[Scarpia]

You still don't get it. By your argument, the fact Berlioz was as different from Chopin as he was from Haydn means there is no such thing as a classical style and a romantic style. That is the nature of the fallacy.

1)  There is no quantitative measure of stylistic distance in music which would allow you to say with any certainty whether Berlioz is closer to Chopin or Haydn.  In genetics there is.

2)  Dividing lines between different classical music "styles" are also probably dependent on cultural traditions and lack objective reality, just as those of race apparently do.  I.e., to say Berlioz and Chopin both belong to the Romantic style gives you no reason to expect that their music will be similar in any particular way.   

[Saul]

As I said.  Uneducated idiots, not scientists. 

And with that, my participation in this infantile bickering is at an end.

Those who follow the racist Darwinian theory, still do.
All of them believe that the first humans came from Apes out of Africa.

[DavidRoss]

From the 1998 statement on "Race" by AAA (the American Anthropological Association, not the auto club):

With the vast expansion of scientific knowledge in this century...it has become clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. Evidence from the analysis of genetics (e.g., DNA) indicates that most physical variation, about 94%, lies within so-called racial groups. Conventional geographic "racial" groupings differ from one another only in about 6% of their genes. This means that there is greater variation within "racial" groups than between them. In neighboring populations there is much overlapping of genes and their phenotypic (physical) expressions. Throughout history whenever different groups have come into contact, they have interbred. The continued sharing of genetic materials has maintained all of humankind as a single species.

"Race" [is] an ideology...a body of prejudgments that distorts our ideas about human differences and group behavior. Racial beliefs constitute myths about the diversity in the human species and about the abilities and behavior of people homogenized into "racial" categories. The myths fused behavior and physical features together in the public mind, impeding our comprehension of both biological variations and cultural behavior, implying that both are genetically determined. Racial myths bear no relationship to the reality of human capabilities or behavior. Scientists today find that reliance on such folk beliefs about human differences in research has led to countless errors.

http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

The only concept of "race" that makes any sense is cultural, with "race" roughly synonymous with "ethnicity" or "culture."  The biological concept of "race" is hokum.

Now, can we get back to wondering if Teresa is a real person or a clever troll out to thoroughly discredit every idea "she" advances?

Edited to repair broken quote box and to add emphasis

[Josquin des Prez]

1)  There is no quantitative measure of stylistic distance in music which would allow you to say with any certainty whether Berlioz is closer to Chopin or Haydn.

There IS a quantitative measure for stylistic distances which allows us to say that Berlioz IS in fact closer to Chopin then Haydn (hence, why the first two are Romantics while the latter is a Classicist). You would never be able to make a musicological analysis of stylistic differences if that wasn't the case. 

2)  Dividing lines between different classical music "styles" are also probably dependent on cultural traditions and lack objective reality, just as those of race apparently do.  I.e., to say Berlioz and Chopin both belong to the Romantic style gives you no reason to expect that their music will be similar in any particular way.

Dividing lines between different musical styles is not dependent on cultural traditions at all. Its based on concrete, stylistic differences which are perfectly measurable. Thus, to say Berlioz and Chopin both belong to the Romantic style implies that their music WILL be similar in several specific ways. That is once again the nature of the fallacy, for any type of classification or grouping is based on commonalities, not differences. It doesn't matter one bit whether Berlioz is as different from Chopin as he is from Haydn, what matters is the stylistic elements which his music shares with Chopin which cannot be found in Haydn.

[Saul]

However I am for monitored foreign aid that actually gets to the people in need, controlled immigration, gay marriage

I see you want to destroy the world by supporting Sodom and Gomorrah 'laws' , they also accepted homosexuality as 'natural' and 'acceptable'. The Greeks and the Romans did the same, in fact, in Sparta homosexuality was actually encouraged.

One end has met them all, all these nations got destroyed.

[knight66]

One end has met all ancient empires and shows signs of doing away with all the modern ones. It is the cycle of history, rise and fall, then occasionally rise again. And we can do without you restating why you imagine this has happened.

Mike