Szymanowski's 4th Symphony

[schweitzeralan]

Although I have listened to and have become familiar with many of Szymanowski's works, pianistic and orchestral, I never listened attentively to his 4th, the "Symphonie Concertante," until quite  recently.  I find it to be a wonderful, dramatic work conceived in a musical idiom somewhat less than the modernist, almost atonal style of many of the composers later works. Work is quite melodious with many passages for solo in instruments as well as a comma commanding presence of the piano. There are even a few impressionistic passages in the second movement. I had always assumed he was born and educated in Poland. He was the son of a Polish landowner in the Ukraine. Early influences are Staussian; some Scriabinist and Debussyian (Mythes) in  a sort of "middle period."

[CaramelJones]

Being a concertante,the 3rd symphony and the sublime Stabat Mater/Litany to the Virgin Mary overshadowed the 4th symphony.  A bit like this thread being overshadowed by the Szymanowski composer thread 

Szymanowski always worked on the threshold of splintering tonality apart.  Even those who don't like contemporary 21st century music might still find hope in his fascinating and mysteriously rich work.

[schweitzeralan]

Being a concertante,the 3rd symphony and the sublime Stabat Mater/Litany to the Virgin Mary overshadowed the 4th symphony.  A bit like this thread being overshadowed by the Szymanowski composer thread 

Szymanowski always worked on the threshold of splintering tonality apart.  Even those who don't like contemporary 21st century music might still find hope in his fascinating and mysteriously rich work.

Appreciate your one and only reply to the S. 4th.  It has been a while since I actually listened to the work.  I've been listening attentively to the 2nd symphony.  A wonderful work despite the many obvious Straussian moments. I'm sure there have been many postings on this significant composer. I'll have to reconsult the original thread.

[Mirror Image]

Szymanowski's Symphony No. 4 "Sinfonia Concertante" is one of my favorite works by this composer. If I was a well-known conductor, I would definitely make it apart of my own personal repertoire.

The second movement is particuarly moving for me, but the whole piece holds together quite well. The best version I've heard was with Simon Rattle in his Szymanowski set:



This is a great set in my opinion. One of the best, if not the best, Szymanowski recordings available. I have yet to hear Antoni Wit's on Naxos. Has anyone else heard the Wit/Naxos recordings?

[CaramelJones]

This is a great set in my opinion. One of the best, if not the best, Szymanowski recordings available. I have yet to hear Antoni Wit's on Naxos. Has anyone else heard the Wit/Naxos recordings?

It's not just a great set - it is the definitive choice par excellence for all of Szymanowski's works.

Although there are some minor points with the music, it is better recorded and played by the Birmingham City Symphony Orchestra.  The Wit rendition is noteworthy across the Szymanowski field, for bringing works like "Veni Creator" and "Demeter" to us - works which Rattle did not record.

At times Wit's symphony sounds a little mushy; it could do with more definition here or there.  The orchestral timing and phrasing is not in the same league as the BCSO however it is a really top notch recommendation especially for the price.

The Accord label also brought us alternative readings of the two violin concertos.  If you're interested in a less feminine reading of the Szymanowski works than Zehetmair on the Rattle recordings, these are excellent too.   

For a first time newcomer to the Symphonies 3/4, Stabat Mater and two violin concertos - Rattle and the BCSO on EMI Classics is the way to go.   The Symphony 4 was recorded previously by EMI Classics too; it was a very serviceable account without the top drawer playing and definition of the 90's era recordings from Rattle.    Without Rattle, most of Szymanowski's appreciative audience would still be clueless without him.   For a whole decade before these came out, the only versions available were on the Polskie Nagrania label (import) only, and then succeeded by Chantal Juillet (violin) and the Montreal Symphony Orchestral (a very slight reading - too timid a violin, which was invariably drowned out by the orchestra) and then the later Naxos stuff.

[Todd]

It's not just a great set - it is the definitive choice par excellence for all of Szymanowski's works.

How did you establish that it is "definitive"?  Krol Roger is better served by Kaspszyk than Rattle, for instance, especially when it comes to the title role as sung by Wojtek Drabowicz.  The earlier EMI recording of the 4th, led by Jerzy Semkov, may lack a bit of the precision of the Rattle set, but to my ears it's more vibrant and substantial.  Again, I'm not sure how Rattle is definitive.  It is an outstanding work, though the 3rd is the better symphony to me, and there Rattle must cede to Wit, as he must do with the Stabat Mater as well.  (Wit's EMI recording is probably my favorite of this last work, though the sound is not up to snuff.)  I'll take Kulka / Maksymiuk in the violin concertos any day over Zehetmair / Rattle, as well. 

I guess I'd say that Rattle is very good in this repertoire – some of his best recordings are of Szymanowski – but he's more of a starting point than ending point. 

I would certainly encourage anyone interested in music of the early 20th Century to sample Szymanowski, but I'm not sure I'd say there are many definitive recordings.

[CaramelJones]

How did you establish that it is "definitive"?  Krol Roger is better served by Kaspszyk than Rattle, for instance, especially when it comes to the title role as sung by Wojtek Drabowicz.  The earlier EMI recording of the 4th, led by Jerzy Semkov, may lack a bit of the precision of the Rattle set, but to my ears it's more vibrant and substantial.  Again, I'm not sure how Rattle is definitive.  It is an outstanding work, though the 3rd is the better symphony to me, and there Rattle must cede to Wit, as he must do with the Stabat Mater as well.  (Wit's EMI recording is probably my favorite of this last work, though the sound is not up to snuff.)  I'll take Kulka / Maksymiuk in the violin concertos any day over Zehetmair / Rattle, as well. 

I guess I'd say that Rattle is very good in this repertoire – some of his best recordings are of Szymanowski – but he's more of a starting point than ending point. 

I would certainly encourage anyone interested in music of the early 20th Century to sample Szymanowski, but I'm not sure I'd say there are many definitive recordings.

Because I say so lol.


Seriously - if you weren't paying attention in the week the CD came out and bombed the music journalism - it's easy to wonder what all the fuss was about:

http://www.emiclassics.co.uk/release.php?id=160157

The Times gave an ecstatic 5-star review for Rattle's performances of Harnasie in 2002. It was subsequently recorded at Symphony Hall in Birmingham for this release:

Your opinion of the Wit recording over the Rattle is not only at a variance with my experience, but also many others:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/88vr

There's a post-Wagnerian romantic weight, blended with Scriabin's unbridled sensuality, and a Ravel-ian lushness and refinement of orchestration, and it takes special soloist to soar with the effortless virtuosity Szymanowski demands. Frank Peter Zimmerman is just that, as anyone who heard him at the 2006 Proms in the First Concerto with Rattle and the Berlin Philharmonic will know. And while that orchestra's luxurious sophistication can't quite be matched by the Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra and Antoni Wit, this is an experienced set of Szymanowskians, and it shows in the assurance with which they handle the free-flowing tempos, and the Second Concerto's more complex textures and Polish folk influences.

and the BBC Classics Music rating of the Rattle version of the Szymanowski:

http://www.classicstoday.com/digest/pdigest.asp?perfidx=1511p1

KAROL SZYMANOWSKI
Symphonies Nos. 3 & 4; Violin Concertos Nos. 1 & 2; Stabat Mater; Litany to the Virgin Mary; Harnasie; Love Songs of Hafiz; Songs of a Fairy-tale Princess; King Roger   Thomas Zehetmair (violin); Leif Ove Andsnes (piano); Various soloists
City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra & Chorus
Simon Rattle
EMI   5 14576 2   CD   10/10

Here is an older review of the original Accord release (Harnasie) - it describes the music as 'cocooned'.  I would say 'muffled':
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2003/Oct03/szymanowski_harnasie.htm


and of course....the Gramaphone magazine 'Best violin concerto' recording award for the Zehetmair/Rattle performances:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=69335

This disc received the 1997 Gramophone award for "Best Concerto Recording".
At the helm of the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, Simon Rattle consistently delivers inspired and nuanced performances of late romantic works, outstanding in every way. This EMI Classics release of Karol Szymanowski's violin concertos with violinist Thomas Zehetmair is no exception. Foremost are a sense of drama and a care for detail mixed with characteristically bold exuberance and rhythmic drive. Dynamic contrasts abound, and the sense of musical climax is especially satisfying.
Szymanowski wrote his two violin concertos and several shorter violin pieces for his close friend Pawel Kochanski. EMI gives us sparkling accounts of these, highlighting the lush orchestration and the wondrous, disconcerting harmonic landscape which is reminiscent of Scriabin, Strauss and early Stravinsky. Rattle explores the music, probing the composer's shifting textures without ever getting ahead of himself and giving a sense of where the moment may lead and, as a result, providing a real sense of discovery through hard-earned moments of revelation. The pieces for violin and piano showcase Zehetmair's prodigious talents ably accompanied by Silke Avenhaus.   

Alternatively - just listen to the Simon Rattle/Zehetmair performances and make up your own mind.

Why 'definitive'?

If it wasn't for Rattle, Szymanowski would not have been defined into the musical consciousness of the 21st century.  Already eclipsed for over 60 years after his death due to the second world war, it is Rattle's recordings which defined Szymanowski to a wider audience, beyond Poland and beyond the limitations of the Accord recordings.

Make no mistake either - the Accord recordings are very good.  That's one reason why I have about 4 different versions of his Symphonies 3/4; Violin Concertos, as well as his string quartets.

[Todd]

Wow, you sure do revere the press.  And you make some bizarre claims.  What does "defined into the musical consciousness of the 21st century" even mean, and can you back this up with some further evidence?  Is Szymanowski programmed with substantially greater frequency in the world's concert halls, opera houses, and recital halls today as a result of Rattle's recordings (or anyone's), or is he still an infrequently programmed and neglected composer?

Alternatively - just listen to the Simon Rattle/Zehetmair performances and make up your own mind.

I did.

[Dax]

It's not just a great set - it is the definitive choice par excellence for all of Szymanowski's works.

Look at the Szymanowski thread. You'll find some informed opinion there.

For a first time newcomer to the Symphonies 3/4, Stabat Mater and two violin concertos - Rattle and the BCSO on EMI Classics is the way to go.   

No they are not.

Without Rattle, most of Szymanowski's appreciative audience would still be clueless without him. 

Sorry, but that's absolute rubbish. Your history of available recordings is also seriously at fault. Some of us have been on the case for 40 years or more.

[CaramelJones]

Lol.  And I thought I was opinionated....then I've come along and seen that Dax's post is nothing but opinion.

Wow, you sure do revere the press.  And you make some bizarre claims.  What does "defined into the musical consciousness of the 21st century" even mean, and can you back this up with some further evidence? 

Actually I don't revere the press: I merely pay more attention to the musical press, than this forum (unlike Dax).   Sometimes music critics actually have a clue

Now why would it matter, if any more evidence was offered for you, when you have already dismissed the musical literature, reviewing Szymanowski's works?

Is Szymanowski programmed with substantially greater frequency in the world's concert halls, opera houses, and recital halls today as a result of Rattle's recordings (or anyone's), or is he still an infrequently programmed and neglected composer?

Absolutely.  Being in England - and living in Birmingham, seeing the Birmingham City Symphony Orchestra bring Szymanowski to our country for the very first time in such a performance.  A once in the life time performance

Even better for those who aren't geographically close - the Simon Rattle CD.  If you're honest and ask the question genuinely, then you can easily look up the sales of the Simon Rattle/Szymanowski recordings and realise that it was no small moment in musical history when that disc came out.

Toodles!

[Todd]

If you're honest and ask the question genuinely, then you can easily look up the sales of the Simon Rattle/Szymanowski recordings and realise that it was no small moment in musical history when that disc came out.

Sorry, but it was in fact a small moment in musical history. 

[Mirror Image]

Is he still an infrequently programmed and neglected composer?

Absolutely he is, but so are so many other composers. My own opinion of the Rattle Szymanowski are they are very good, but the only other Szymanowski I've heard outside of Rattle's set is the 2-CD set on EMI. Wit's recordings are next on my to-buy list.

[Todd]

Absolutely he is, but so are so many other composers.

Looks like you missed the point.  CaramelJones is given to hyperbole, and made some claims about Szymanowski being part of the consciousness of today, or whatever.  That's not the case. 

You are right that many composers are neglected.  You're leaving out the part that at least some and perhaps many of them deserve to be.

[Mirror Image]

You are right that many composers are neglected.  You're leaving out the part that at least some and perhaps many of them deserve to be.

Well, yes, many of them aren't worth my own time, but a composer like let's say Rubbra for example wrote some great music that I would love to hear in a live context. I don't think his music deserves to die. He was a fine composer.

Would I want to hear Coleridge-Taylor performed live? Not really. Doesn't interest me, but Szymanowski on a concert program sounds pretty tempting to me.