Carl Vine (1954 -)

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I listened to the 1st and the 3rd earlier today.

I like the Vine 'sound'. His orchestral textures are clean and transparant. He can be airy and weighty. He is clearly his own man, but he does remind me of a few other composers: Robert Simpson (the focus on impersonal process over subjective expression), Karl Amadeus Hartmann (the layeredness, the climaxes), John Adams (the extroversion, the use of the orchestra).

The Third is a 'big' piece. It has a very 'evolutionary' feel to it, beginning in the depths as it does, and building and developing from there. The First is short and effective, the Vine style is already fully-formed. The climax of the piece manages to avoid triviality (it sounds like pop music, almost).

I don't know what the music is 'saying'. It is rather abstract. There are melodies here, but they are not 'romantic', more of a factual character (this is what reminds me of Simpson).

These are my first impressions.

Those are some very good first impressions.

Vine's sound is very enigmatic. You mentioned that you're not quite sure what his music is trying to convey, but this is what makes the music all the more appealing to me. You could spent a good portion of your life trying to figure his music out, which is why I just try to listen to music for what it is at that moment.

Vine spent much of his early career composing dance music and music for theatre. It was only until the early 80s that he started to experiment with the symphonic form. I think he does an amazing job of coaxing textures and colors from the orchestra. He's an adept orchestrator. Deep down, however, there's a lot to explore.

After you've spent some time with the symphonies, which I admit take some time to absorb, you should check out this disc, which features his beautiful Oboe Concerto and several other very appealing works:



The only downside to collecting Vine is in order to acquire his music, the potential listener has to pay the price. I'm sure you can find this specific recording cheaper in the used market.

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Time to revive this thread. I wonder how Johan is coming along with Vine? It's been awhile since he has posted his first impressions.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I saw your link to Carl Vine on Facebook and that reminded me I really should give his symphonies a second listen.... Watch this space.

[Grazioso]

First, a word of thanks to my fellow GMG'ers for hipping me to this composer. Having listened to the first three symphonies a few times, I've been most impressed. My question: any word on whether symphony 7 is going to get recorded?

[Mirror Image]

First, a word of thanks to my fellow GMG'ers for hipping me to this composer. Having listened to the first three symphonies a few times, I've been most impressed. My question: any word on whether symphony 7 is going to get recorded?

I haven't heard anything about the 7th getting recorded. I'd like to hear his Violin Concerto get recorded as well. Do you own the recording with the Oboe Concerto as well? This is an excellent recording and it contains some other works like his ballet suite The Tempest. Here's a link:

[asin]B0002TL756[/asin]

[jowcol]

First, a word of thanks to my fellow GMG'ers for hipping me to this composer. Having listened to the first three symphonies a few times, I've been most impressed. My question: any word on whether symphony 7 is going to get recorded?

A: You need to check out 5 and 6.
B:  Check your messages.

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A: You need to check out 5 and 6.
B:  Check your messages.

Don't forget about the 4th or should I say 4.2. This is one of his best IMHO.

[Philip Legge]

And #6, the choral symphony is a brilliant piece too; I've only heard a couple of the other symphonies. Though in my case, this is purely a bit of vested interest speaking, I performed this in Melbourne nearly ten years ago and was planning to organise a performance for the International Astronomical Year in a double bill with Holst's Planets (that idea fell through in negotiations with the orchestra). In the one I sang in, at one of the late rehearsals the organist was absent, so I had to play the rather fiendish organ part. That was a shock to the system!

[lescamil]

A: You need to check out 5 and 6.
B:  Check your messages.

Do you know something about the 7th and a possible recording (I assume that is what the private message was about)?

My favorites are 4.2, 5, and 6, for the record. Absolutely love all three of them for completely different reasons.

[Grazioso]

A: You need to check out 5 and 6.
B:  Check your messages.

I have the two disc-set of symphonies 1-6, my only Vine so far. I'm working my way through all of them.

I checked my messages. I tend to forget to.

[pjme]

Carl Vine in a more recent pic



I have a few ( the earlier ones) symphonies, the oboe concerto and the Tempest. definitely intend to explore further.

P.

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the oboe concerto

This is a work that still resonates with me. That slow middle movement is absolutely gorgeous.

[lescamil]

Time to revive this thread again! I've started learning his first piano sonata recently. Any favorites out there as far as recordings go? Michael Kieran Harvey recorded the work 3 times! All 3 sound quite different. I've also heard others, such as Joyce Yang and Sergei Babayan. It seems like a work that you can bring quite an individual sound to. I really love this sonata (all three sonatas actually), and I doubt this will be the last that I play of Vine. I might even tackle another one of his sonatas in a few years.

[bhodges]

Time to revive this thread again! I've started learning his first piano sonata recently. Any favorites out there as far as recordings go? Michael Kieran Harvey recorded the work 3 times! All 3 sound quite different. I've also heard others, such as Joyce Yang and Sergei Babayan. It seems like a work that you can bring quite an individual sound to. I really love this sonata (all three sonatas actually), and I doubt this will be the last that I play of Vine. I might even tackle another one of his sonatas in a few years.

The First Piano Sonata is wonderful. I have only heard the Babayan recording (which is excellent all around) but would be glad to hear others. IIRC it was composed for the Sydney Dance Company, and I would love to see what they did with it.

Anyway, good for you for working on it - sounds like it would be a lot of fun to play.

--Bruce

[lescamil]

Sydney Dance Company, eh? I've always found the piece to be very dance-oriented, and it comes to no surprise that it was composed for a dance company. Michael Kieran Harvey's three recordings really bring out the dance element of the work, I think.

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I have recently befriended Carl Vine on Facebook and I sent him a message telling him how I've enjoyed his music and he emailed me back with a warm message. I think this is why Facebook is useful. Anyway, I'm excited to have him as a friend on there and I look forward to conversing more with him. There's no doubt in my mind that he's the finest Australian composer I've heard. Sculthorpe and Edwards are good, but Vine is great.

[kentel]

I have recently befriended Carl Vine on Facebook and I sent him a message telling him how I've enjoyed his music and he emailed me back with a warm message. I think this is why Facebook is useful. Anyway, I'm excited to have him as a friend on there and I look forward to conversing more with him. There's no doubt in my mind that he's the finest Australian composer I've heard. Sculthorpe and Edwards are good, but Vine is great.

I discovered Carl Vine a few months ago, and I must admitt that I've been very impressed. He is really good. It's too bad that he doesn't have the right orchestra to play his symphonies (no, that's not my leitmotiv !)  : the Sydney SO sounds hazy, indistinct and colourless. These symphonies and orchestral pieces deserve certainly a much better rendition.

However, I wouldn't put Vine at a higher level than Sculthorpe. I love Sculthorpe's music, which I find personnal, imaginative, evocative and very well-written (as Vine's is).

On the contrary, I don't like Edwards : it's inconsistant, it has no clear structure, no good orchestration, dull harmonies. To me it sounds really  amateurish. Like Bracanin, f.ex.

A very good Australian composer is Jacob Lentz (maybe he has his thread here, I havn't checked yet).

[Mirror Image]

I discovered Carl Vine a few months ago, and I must admitt that I've been very impressed. He is really good. It's too bad that he doesn't have the right orchestra to play his symphonies (no, that's not my leitmotiv !)  : the Sydney SO sounds hazy, indistinct and colourless. These symphonies and orchestral pieces deserve certainly a much better rendition.

However, I wouldn't put Vine at a higher level than Sculthorpe. I love Sculthorpe's music, which I find personnal, imaginative, evocative and very well-written (as Vine's is).

On the contrary, I don't like Edwards : it's inconsistant, it has no clear structure, no good orchestration, dull harmonies. To me it sounds really  amateurish. Like Bracanin, f.ex.

A very good Australian composer is Jacob Lentz (maybe he has his thread here, I havn't checked yet).

I agree with you about Edwards. I also agree with you about Sculthorpe. A good composer but a bit hit and miss for me. Carl Vine's symphony set isn't as bad as you make it out to be. I do think, like you, that these works need to be performed more often, but in the first three symphonies you won't find a more passionate advocate of Vine's music than Stuart Challender. May he rest in peace.

[johncarey]

Well it certainly seems that, based on the enthusiasm about his music on this forum, I need to delve deeper into Vine's catalogue. I, like most, had my first exposure to his works when I heard his Piano Sonata No. 1, which I was completely captivated by. I also have a recording of his symphonies, but they never really "grabbed" me in the same way the sonata did. This thread has definitely encouraged me to give them another shot. I'll report back once I give them another listen.

[Mirror Image]

Well it certainly seems that, based on the enthusiasm about his music on this forum, I need to delve deeper into Vine's catalogue. I, like most, had my first exposure to his works when I heard his Piano Sonata No. 1, which I was completely captivated by. I also have a recording of his symphonies, but they never really "grabbed" me in the same way the sonata did. This thread has definitely encouraged me to give them another shot. I'll report back once I give them another listen.

Sounds good, John, and welcome to the forum!