Twelve tone exercises

[mikkeljs]

Im supposed to learn the disciplin of writing a Webern style exercise 12-16 bars for three instruments for the entrance exam for composition. Im in the Philippines so I have no books and no teachers or musicians around to ask. When I google it I only find the introduction of how to make a retrograd and inversion etc. But I don´t know any other rules and I have no idea where to find them.

First of all, I don´t want to read how to make a retrograd of a row for the 100.000th time. So far I know that Im supposed to create a form in the exercise. Im only wondering about this:

Is it a goal in the exercise to find common intervals or common series of intervals on different places in a row and to use theise to create overlapping rows, where one takes over the other, or to stable the common materiale in a way which is similar to eachother?

If this is not a goal in the exercise, all you can do is combining the rows in a random way.

I hope someone here have done theise exercises and is able to help me.

Mikkel

[mikkeljs]

And what time signature should I use?

[greg]

Is it a goal in the exercise to find common intervals or common series of intervals on different places in a row and to use theise to create overlapping rows, where one takes over the other, or to stable the common materiale in a way which is similar to eachother?

It's been awhile since I've studied Webern, but I used to notice that very often, the last note of the tone row would end up as the first note a new version of the row.

Obviously, you just need some Webern scores. PM me which e-mail you want me to send them to (I have pdfs of all opus number except 17 and 26, plus a couple of non-opus works).

[petrarch]

Is it a goal in the exercise to find common intervals or common series of intervals on different places in a row and to use theise to create overlapping rows, where one takes over the other, or to stable the common materiale in a way which is similar to eachother?

There is indeed some structure to how the row is built and that structure can be used to bridge the various permutations. For example, use a 3-note cell with a certain intervallic structure and apply the permutations to it, giving you a "consistent" row built from a more fundamental unit. Then use the cells as the bridge between instances of the row.

I got this book in the 90s and it contains some very interesting analyses of serial pieces:

http://www.amazon.com/Analytic-Approaches-Twentieth-Century-Music-Lester/dp/0393957624

[mikkeljs]

It's been awhile since I've studied Webern, but I used to notice that very often, the last note of the tone row would end up as the first note a new version of the row.

Obviously, you just need some Webern scores. PM me which e-mail you want me to send them to (I have pdfs of all opus number except 17 and 26, plus a couple of non-opus works).

I don´t know if the Webern style exercise means that I should do just like Webern. Probably he also had different styles himself. Webern also break up the rows all the time and mirror 3 or 4 notes all the time, but I don´t know if Im supposed to keep strictly to the row.

Thanks a lot that you want to send me some scores, but Im not sure if I need them. I already studied some of his works, though it is a while ago.

There is indeed some structure to how the row is built and that structure can be used to bridge the various permutations. For example, use a 3-note cell with a certain intervallic structure and apply the permutations to it, giving you a "consistent" row built from a more fundamental unit. Then use the cells as the bridge between instances of the row.

I got this book in the 90s and it contains some very interesting analyses of serial pieces:

http://www.amazon.com/Analytic-Approaches-Twentieth-Century-Music-Lester/dp/0393957624

Thank you very much. So it is enought with a 3-note cell? Ah that sounds delighting, that it is not 4 or 5 notes as a minimum. So making bridges between the rows should be done by letting the row be taken over by another in one voice? So that the rows wouldn´t be complete.

Im still not sure how to built a form by that. Should it be done by creating a repetitive combination of rythm, durations and approximate melodic contours? So that the row should simply fit in as good as possible by having the same intervals on identical spots? 

[mikkeljs]

Perhabs I should have a look at some completed twelve tone exercises so that I can see what is it actually aboout. I have my own ideas of course and I could also study pieces by Webern, but I can´t know what is actually expected from me to do in an exercise.

[petrarch]

Perhabs I should have a look at some completed twelve tone exercises so that I can see what is it actually aboout. I have my own ideas of course and I could also study pieces by Webern, but I can´t know what is actually expected from me to do in an exercise.

Check the analyses on the book I mentioned. It will be crystal clear.

The use of cells as bridges is nothing more than having a row built from C1-C2-C3-C4 and then link that to the next row using C4 as the first cell of whatever row you can build from it.

[mikkeljs]

Thanks. I just have to figure out how I get the book here.

[petrarch]

Some of that kind of info is probably available if you google it. For example (not the same book, but to the point):

http://books.google.com/books?id=jk3niNyiHFoC&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q&f=false

[mikkeljs]

Oh thanks a lot for this. 

[mikkeljs]

Now I have analyzed and read a lot from your link and other things. I would appreciate very much to see an example of Webern using an overlapping row in his compositions. I didn´t find any of that yet.

I also wonder if a row is allowed to switch between the instruments in the excercise containing 3 instruments as 3 voices, or if each instrument represents one row only?

[petrarch]

Now I have analyzed and read a lot from your link and other things. I would appreciate very much to see an example of Webern using an overlapping row in his compositions. I didn´t find any of that yet.

I also wonder if a row is allowed to switch between the instruments in the excercise containing 3 instruments as 3 voices, or if each instrument represents one row only?

Take a look at this paper http://www.cea.mdx.ac.uk/local/media/downloads/Dack/Webern.pdf.

[mikkeljs]

Take a look at this paper http://www.cea.mdx.ac.uk/local/media/downloads/Dack/Webern.pdf.

Thanks, but I already read it once before. After second read, I still didn´t find any examples of overlapping in the rows.

I think I will just post one of my excersises here, and hopefully get some comments on it. Just have to write it into Sibelius.

[petrarch]

Thanks, but I already read it once before. After second read, I still didn´t find any examples of overlapping in the rows.

I think I will just post one of my excersises here, and hopefully get some comments on it. Just have to write it into Sibelius.

Check Op. 27 2nd movement, where the last note of each row form is the first of the next, or Op. 28 1st movement, where the last 4 notes of a row form are the first 4 of the next.

[mikkeljs]

I have made my first 12tone excersise. Hmm, I have no idea if I have totally misunderstood it, or if it is actually good. But I just followed the books and Weberns pieces as a guide. How can I upload it? Its a Sibelius 6 file.

The row is C  D#  D  C#  G#  F   F#  G  A#  E   A   H, and the variants

H  D  G  G#  A  F#  F  D#  A#  E  C#  C,

G   A#  H  C  A  E  D#  D  F  F#  G#  C#,

A  D  G#  H  C  C#  A#  F  E  D#  F#  G and

D# E  F  D  C#  H  F#  C  A  G#  G  A#.

[greg]

You can put it in a zip file and attach it.

[mikkeljs]

wow  thanks for the fast reply! Ok now I made a zip file. But it says that this kind of file is not allowed.

[karlhenning]

Print it to a pdf file, and attach the pdf.

[mikkeljs]

Print it to a pdf file, and attach the pdf.

Already tried that some time ago, without succes. I think its quite difficult. Hmm is there really no way to upload music to a music forum??

[karlhenning]

Already tried that some time ago, without success.

Do you have a program which creates pdf files?  What was the nature of the failure?