Your top 3 symphonists

[lescamil]

I nearly chose Braga Santos instead of Tubin John. However, I like all the ten completed Tubin symphonies, but only nos 1-4 of Braga Santos.

But the last two Braga Santos symphonies are the best ones!

[Cato]

  May I ask which "music professors" wrote "15-20 minutes symphonies" in the 40's and the 50's - so that I could listen and try to understand what your criticism is about - ?

Well, no, you cannot hear them!  And consider yourself lucky!   0:)

However, I can explain my criticism, which involves a double-edged sword:

1. Their names have been forgotten because...
2. Their music was uninteresting mathematical wannabe-Webernian blips and bloops meant to mystify graduate students in Music, who however tended to be more annoyed than mystified.

Trust me: I saw a good number of these scores gathering dust in several university libraries, and my general criticism was echoed by professional critics 40-50 years ago.  This professorial dominance with its "wannabe Webernianism" was partially the reason why a cry of freedom - or relief - accompanied the birth of Minimalism.

[Cato]

Well, no, you cannot hear them!  And consider yourself lucky!   0:)

However, I can explain my criticism, which involves a double-edged sword:

1. Their names have been forgotten because...
2. Their music was uninteresting mathematical wannabe-Webernian blips and bloops meant to mystify graduate students in Music, who however tended to be more annoyed than mystified.

Trust me: I saw a good number of these scores gathering dust in several university libraries, and my general criticism was echoed by professional critics 40-50 years ago.  This professorial dominance with its "wannabe Webernianism" was partially the reason why a cry of freedom - or relief - accompanied the birth of Minimalism.

An example of a composer who deliberately avoided academia (partially) because of this atmosphere was Gene Gutche'.

http://www.genegutche.org/biography.htm

[Mirror Image]

Glad to hear this, John! The 6th is one of the ones I am yet to hear. So far I know no.4 and 7 which are both excellent, and very very different. This Saturday when I get back to the academy (we have just had the 'half term' holidays), Matthew is planning on playing me another Simpson symphony, which I am very excited to hear. I think he said it would be no.8 we'll be listening to.

By the way, if you want the most thrilling rhythmic energy, take a listen to the Scherzo from the 4th symphony! Matthew was right in telling me before we listened to it that 'you will have never heard a scherzo quite like this before...'. Such a thrilling piece!

Thanks, Daniel. I'll give the 4th another listen at some point. Right now, I just received my ninth Shostakovich symphony cycle (Kondrashin, Moscow Philharmonic) and I plan on making my way through it. I also received Gergiev's Shostakovich set called The War Symphonies which is #4-9, so I plan on listening to these as well. It looks like I'll be tied up for awhile, plus, tomorrow Markl's set of Debussy comes out, so I'll be acquiring this. So much to listen to!!!

[Mirror Image]

I nearly chose Braga Santos instead of Tubin John. However, I like all the ten completed Tubin symphonies, but only nos 1-4 of Braga Santos.

I actually like all of Braga Santos' symphonies. The 2nd is actually my favorite though. I do like the 4th a lot too. I need to refresh my memory of Tubin's, but the last Tubin symphony I listened to was the 7th which was riveting.

[Bogey]

Cool, Bill!

Well, you need to receive a lot of credit for my third choice, Karl.  Continued appreciation.

[vandermolen]

But the last two Braga Santos symphonies are the best ones!

I meant symphonies 1,2,3 and 4 and totally agree that 3 and 4 are the best. He is certainly one of my favourite composers.

[vandermolen]

I actually like all of Braga Santos' symphonies. The 2nd is actually my favorite though. I do like the 4th a lot too. I need to refresh my memory of Tubin's, but the last Tubin symphony I listened to was the 7th which was riveting.

And I need to refresh my memory of Tubin's 7th Symphony! Actually, I increasingly like the more challenging nos 5 and 6 by Braga Santos too.

[vandermolen]

In no particular order:

Shostakovich
Mahler
Weinberg

I have greatly enjoyed nos 1 and 3 by Weinberg, although I still think that, of the ones I know, No 5 is the greatest and the choral No 6 is a very powerful and moving work.

[kentel]

1. Their names have been forgotten because...
2. Their music was uninteresting mathematical wannabe-Webernian blips and bloops meant to mystify graduate students in Music, who however tended to be more annoyed than mystified.

Trust me: I saw a good number of these scores gathering dust in several university libraries, and my general criticism was echoed by professional critics 40-50 years ago.  This professorial dominance with its "wannabe Webernianism" was partially the reason why a cry of freedom - or relief - accompanied the birth of Minimalism.

Thanks for your answer, I guess I know what kind of stuff you are referring to In France, the stereotype of this kind was René Leibowitz, but I could mention many others. Actually, Boulez in his first works wrote things in this vein. Serialism was a kind of recipe, which could warrant the composer immediate success inasmuch as he was in the good "milieu". As for the (many) others, you're right : their scores are now gathering dust in universities and conservatories.

However, Maxwell-Davies and Segerstam sound very different to my ears : it's unmelodious and atonal, but it's not webernian. There's no klangfarbenmelodie with a single note for the clarinet here and a single note for the mandolin there etc. It's much more coherent, there's an atmosphere, it's more sensual than intellectual and it sounds to me highly evocative with a very rich panel of orchestral sonorities.

Well, you may not like it though, it's a question of personal affinities, but I don't think one could assimilate it to post-serial like stuff. To me PMD is a heir of Tippett and Britten - especially Tippett.

[SymphonicAddict]

Is there a question harder than this one? (Probably would be 'Your all-time favorite composer')

Probably as a first attempt:

Dvorák
Nielsen
Tchaikovsky

As a second attempt it would be:

Vaughan Williams
Shostakovich
Bruckner

Why not a third one?

Martinu
Mahler
Tubin

[amw]

Haydn
Beethoven
Dvořák (except no.9)

[calyptorhynchus]

1.Robert Simpson
2. Havergal Brian
3. Holmboe

[Brian]

Haydn
Beethoven
Dvořák (except no.9)

Completely agree, except I forgive Mr. D. for No. 9.

[Mirror Image]

My list these days would probably look like this:

Mahler
Bruckner
Nielsen

[Christo]

Vaughan Williams
Tubin
Holmboe

Same here.

[vandermolen]

My top three today:

Vaughan Williams
Shostakovich
Sibelius

Favourites not already mentioned

Tubin
Braga-Santos
Miaskovsky

Three I should have mentioned 

Bruckner
Tchaikovsky
Mahler

[johndoe21ro]

I can't do without...

1. Mahler

2. Bruckner

3. Shostakovich

As of lately I'm stuck with the 5th by Shostakovich with Manfred Honeck and the Pittsburgh SO (Reference Recordings 2017)...
But any Barshai, Bernstein or Mravinsky will do just fine...

[Ken B]

Well, no, you cannot hear them!  And consider yourself lucky!   0:)

However, I can explain my criticism, which involves a double-edged sword:

1. Their names have been forgotten because...
2. Their music was uninteresting mathematical wannabe-Webernian blips and bloops meant to mystify graduate students in Music, who however tended to be more annoyed than mystified.

Trust me: I saw a good number of these scores gathering dust in several university libraries, and my general criticism was echoed by professional critics 40-50 years ago.  This professorial dominance with its "wannabe Webernianism" was partially the reason why a cry of freedom - or relief - accompanied the birth of Minimalism.

I want to bump this comment. Amen brother!

[bwv 1080]

Mahler
Henze
Schnittke