Edmund Rubbra (1901-1986)

[cilgwyn]

You've been a bad influence on a lot of us-- and we wouldn't have it any other way.

I saw a post had been added & when I clicked this is what I saw......until I scrolled down! I was worried for a moment! I really thought those Rubbra posts in the Harris thread were coming back on me! (Or was it Harris in the Rubbra? )

Well,we'll see! I'll get that so called 'Chandos sound',won't I? Although,Lyrita were exceptionally good for their day.

Nice to see Rubbra in the Rubbra thread,too!

Rubbra conducting his Fourth rare? Hm! I may post about this one again!

[cilgwyn]

I wonder where his unusual surname comes from? Nothing much on Wikipedia or Musicweb to enlighten me there. Well so far,anyway!

Okay,now to slot that ancient old cassette into a working & fully functional dolby cassette deck! (And no,it's not a Nakamichi! But I LIKE it! )

[cilgwyn]

The tape of Rubbra conducting the premiere of his Fourth is obviously taken from a radio programme. Composer of the Week,probably? The cassette side begins with a wonderful short work for organ & chorus. The announcer says it is based on,or incorporates,words from the Book of Ezra! Unfortunately,the beginning of this description is incomplete,although the music fortunately is. I wonder what this piece of music is?

This is followed by an archive recording of Rubbra talking about his Fourth symphony. The recording of the symphony is described as very good for it's time (not the EXACT words,but from memory!) & having been restored especially for the programme. Unfortunately,some of my tape recorders were less than state of the art. Fortunately,at least so far,this is definately one of my better ones. Very clear,no annoying 'wobble' or annoying background hiss)  Not bad at all for one what I did myself! And indeed,this archive recording IS extremely impressive for it's day!
If only I'd had a Nakamichi,though!

As to the music! This HAS clicked! I'm impressed. Nothing dry here. It has a mystical quality. The slow movement is wonderfully serene & I'm not just saying this to be polite. But obviously,I'll need to listen more. (I haven't even got to the end yet!)
  On the downside. This could be VERY bad news for my bank balance!

I will have to introduce this tape to audacity,when I've got the time (I can keep a tape copy for my cassette deck! )

[Dundonnell]

I wonder where his unusual surname comes from? Nothing much on Wikipedia or Musicweb to enlighten me there. Well so far,anyway!

Okay,now to slot that ancient old cassette into a working & fully functional dolby cassette deck! (And no,it's not a Nakamichi! But I LIKE it! )

It is thought that Rubbra as a surname comes from the village of Ruborough in Somerset from which the family originated.

What is not often mentioned is that Rubbra's younger brother Arthur was supposed to be the one with the brains. He went on to become an aero engine designer for Rolls-Royce.

I can highly recommend Leo Black's book "Edmund Rubbra, Symphonist". It is not too "technical" and contains fascinating insights into the musical rivalries of the post-war decades-the deification of Britten and Tippett, the Glock regime at the BBC etc.

[cilgwyn]

Arthur could be the Rubbra I heard!

Do you know what the short choral piece is? (See above post!)
After the excellent,for it's day,recording of the Fourth's premiere,a burst of applause & Rubbra not only talking about his 'Variation/s on Cyril Scott',but playing them himself!
What a treat! (The tape leaves the programme after that)

[Dundonnell]

Rubbra wrote a huge amount of music for chorus with organ accompaniment

The opening of the Fourth symphony does need to be taken at a very deliberate pace. Hickox is just that little bit too fast. Handley nails it. Presumably Rubbra did too

Quite apart from the opening being so utterly magical, as Robert Layton has always claimed (see quote above somewhere), but it is a mark of just how self-confident as a symphonist Rubbra was to begin a symphony in this way

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Quote from: Dundonnell on 16-03-2012, 03:07:52

Many of the points made by these reviewers about this superlative symphony are ones which I would heartily endorse. There is a stately and precise beauty which few other British composers can come near, let alone match. The Fourth reminds me of why, ultimately, I hold Edmund Rubbra in higher esteem than Havergal Brian (for all the latter's craggy individuality, there is little in his music which can plumb such depths). And yes, maybe that will upset Johan but I have to be honest



I don't mind. Rubbra isn't your avatar for nothing... But I'll have to see (hear) whether I agree. Brian's depths have a character all of their own. The funny thing about Brian is that he is utterly individual but impersonal, objective. I only get the feeling of HB as a human being in those marvellous (and lonely) violin solos in the symphonies. It could well be that Rubbra is simply more personal, however restrained he may be, which gives a listener an easier sense of 'depths being plumbed'. Rubbra was a religious man, Brian wasn't. I think this is an important difference, too. Imagine Bruckner without his faith... When Bruckner's faith seems to waver (in the Ninth), his music becomes dissonant and almost Expressionistic. In short - world view shapes musical style.

[cilgwyn]

I look forward to my ebay bargain Chandos coupling of Symphonies 2 & 6. I just hope that it works (his ratings were good!) & that I won't be kicking myself too hard for ignoring Dundonnell's recommendations. Let's face it,a few quid would have got me the Lyrita!

[calyptorhynchus]

I'm going to make a few enemies here by saying that I find a lot of Rubbra's music quite boring. I suppose the fact I'm unsympathetic to choral music and specifically Christian choral music puts me offside to begin with. However I find a lot of his orchestral and chamber music rather boring too.

At his best (Symphonies 4 & 7 and the Violin Concerto) there's an inspired sort of declamatory feeling to the music which is sustained throughout. But in the rest of the music there doesn't seem to be much that is symphonic, not much development, not much progression. His music is contrapuntal, but unlike other composers' music it's not dramatically contrapuntal, it's contrapuntal because whenever he wrote music he wrote counterpoint.

I was at Oxford in the 1980s and Rubbra had just retired as Professor of Composition. He was a bit of a figure of fun amongst the youth because of his perceived old-fashionedness. Once I heard some music undergrads discussing composers and his name came up; one said 'Step-wise basses!' and they all raised their eyes and went on to discuss other things.

In his declamatoriness, he reminds me a bit of Rangström, except that Rangström doesn't have much counterpoint either. However, of the two I prefer the Swede's music.

Amusing anecdote: I was once listening to the Symphony 7 and my wife said 'This is a dirge, isn't it?'. 'Yes,' I replied, 'yes, it is a dirge.'

[Dundonnell]

No..I am not going to regard you as an enemy   I am sad that you don't get Rubbra, sad but not angry.

I do think that Rubbra is a composer you either 'get' or you don't. His sound-world is one that you can either embrace or, as you do, find boring, featureless and 'grey'.
I don't really think that any words of mine could change your mind on this

[cilgwyn]

Hm!

[calyptorhynchus]

No..I am not going to regard you as an enemy   I am sad that you don't get Rubbra, sad but not angry.

I do think that Rubbra is a composer you either 'get' or you don't. His sound-world is one that you can either embrace or, as you do, find boring, featureless and 'grey'.
I don't really think that any words of mine could change your mind on this

The bits that I do like, I like (Symphonies 4 and 7 for example) and I think he has great skill in pulling off what I've called his 'declamatoriness'. However I think that it's a thing he couldn't be expected to succeed with every time, unlike my favourites Brian and Simpson... and Haydn, Mozart and the rest, I don't regard him as writing symphonically.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Interesting point of view, Calyptorhynchus, which I can only put to the test once I have finished my traversal of all the Simpson symphonies (though I had a delaying Brian marathon yesterday...)

[cilgwyn]

Cheer up.Dundonnell. Who,knows? You may have another potential Rubbra fan,here! I haven't received my ebay bought cd (Chandos 2 & 6) yet,though! It's a bit too soon yet though,fair play.

And remember,this is a man who has survived TWO Roy Harris 'marathons' AND lived to tell the tale!

[calyptorhynchus]

Mind you, having expressed reservations about his music I do have recordings of most of his early and middle period works, so his estate hasn't done too badly out of my reservations.

[cilgwyn]

  I find Dundonnell's comparison of Rubbra and Harris,in the Roy Harris thread,very intriguing! I've got a Rubbra cd in the post now so,we'll see?!!!
Hoping I won't be bored!!!

[Mirror Image]

I don't find Rubbra's music boring or dull at all. On the first listening, a person may feel an overwhelming urge to nod off a time or two, but on the second listening and further, Rubbra's music starts to wield it's magical powers and casts a spell over the listener like no other. I don't think I can even begin to compare Rubbra to any composer because, quite frankly, a comparsion with a composer of this caliber seems futile. What I will say to those who don't find much greatness in the composer is that you should give him time. I think for many listeners he just doesn't do much for them right away and I think apart of the problem may very well stem from the listener's expectations. If you expect to be blown away by bombastic timpani rolls, pounding from the bass drum, screeching brass, sinister droning contrabasses, then look elsewhere. If, however, you are looking for music that reveals a radiant beauty with each successive listening, then Rubbra may very well be your composer just don't expect to be overwhelmed by what happens in this music on the surface. This music requires you to look deeper, much, much deeper.

It looks like the composers that I'm going to explore (again) for the rest of the year are Rubbra and Franz Schmidt. Of course, I'll sneek in a few other composers here and there, but these are going to be my main focus.

[vandermolen]

I find much of Rubbra's music to be deeply felt. I enjoy all the symphonies although 4,5,7 and 8 are particular favourites. Barbirolli's fine old recording of Symphony No 5 was my way into this music.

[The new erato]

I fully endorse what the two previous posters say. Let me chime in for the wonderful string quartets and the concertante works (eg Soliloquy for Cello and orchestra) as well!

[pencils]

Nice to see this thread revived. I have the greatest admiration for Rubbra and have thought of him as the true heir of Vaughan Williams. I think that VW thought much the same. Colin writes eloquently of Rubbra's appeal and I entirely agree.

My own favourite Rubbra recording is Barbirolli's of Symphony No 5. This was also my introduction to Rubbra on an old EMI LP, where it was coupled with Vaughan Williams's Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus and the Oboe Concerto; a great disc, which I borrowed from the High St Kensington Music Library in the 1970s. Oddly enough as I was driving into work today I was thinking that I must listen to some more Rubbra. My other favourites are Symphony No 7 conducted by Boult on Lyrita (my other Rubbra LP discovery), Symphony No 8 and, of course Symphony No 4. I like No 1 too but haven't really got my head round the choral No 9 yet.

As Colin says, there is something deeply spiritual about Rubbra's music, which is very conducive to quiet introspection (not that I get much chance for that  ) and it grows on you with repeated listening. I'd also recommend the haunting work 'Resurgam' (on Lyrita with symphonies 3 and 4), a beautiful, haunting, short work.

A new biography of Rubbra has recently appeared. I believe that his son, Benedict Rubbra is quite well known as a painter.

As to my favourite composers; Miaskovsky (obviously), Vaughan Williams, Malcolm Arnold, Langgaard, Brian, Honegger, Tubin, Holmboe, Rubbra, Bruckner, Shostakovich, Copland, Diamond and Bloch come to mind.

I am also delighted to find people who love Rubbra. After Vaughan Williams, I would put him at the very pinnacle of English composers. I actually bought my Chandos set of symphonies blindly after a recommendation that suggested he was another VW. I have never been sorry, and particularly favour symphonies 3 & 4. Big thumbs up for Rubbra.

I am also fascinated to see so many others of my favourite composers listed in this quoted post! VW, Tubin, Holmboe, Bruckner, Shostakovich.... I am poking around in Miaskovsky atm, to my great delight