Glad To Be Back

[AndyD.]

Eric Johnson and Shawn Lane both used distortion that was completely saturated but they didn't loose any of their dynamics in their playing. Like in Eric Johnson's lead tone, especially around Ah Via Musicom and Venus Isle you can't even hear his pick. His lead tone is so incredible that it's almost synth-like!

With all respect, Johnson and Lane were rarely ever mega-saturated distortion wise. They had very processed sounds, with plenty of other effects like reverb and delay, not to mention volume (especially in the case of Lane). They go at length in their interviews about their amp settings and pedal boards.

I have to mention that not being able to hear pick dynamics and having a synth like tone pretty much throws away the idea of playing a guitar in the first place. Reminds me of the clowns on youtube that play only with their two hands tapping, completely making the idea of mastering a "guitar" ridiculous. Go play a keyboard.

I have alot of respect for the players you mentioned, especially Johnson who often had some really cool ideas. But...again this is just my opinion, neither of them had much in the way of unique tone, songwriting skill, or even original phrasing. Johnson was very much from the Satriani school tone and legato technique wise, while Lane was more on the jazz fusion end: Holdsworth and DiMeola.

I don't mean to contradict you, I respect your opinion.

[Mirror Image]

With all respect, Johnson and Lane were rarely ever mega-saturated distortion wise. They had very processed sounds, with plenty of other effects like reverb and delay, not to mention volume (especially in the case of Lane). They go at length in their interviews about their amp settings and pedal boards.

I have to mention that not being able to hear pick dynamics and having a synth like tone pretty much throws away the idea of playing a guitar in the first place. Reminds me of the clowns on youtube that play only with their two hands tapping, completely making the idea of mastering a "guitar" ridiculous. Go play a keyboard.

I have alot of respect for the players you mentioned, especially Johnson who often had some really cool ideas. But...again this is just my opinion, neither of them had much in the way of unique tone, songwriting skill, or even original phrasing. Johnson was very much from the Satriani school tone and legato technique wise, while Lane was more on the jazz fusion end: Holdsworth and DiMeola.

I don't mean to contradict you, I respect your opinion.

Well, I've been playing guitar for 20 years and I'm a jazz guy. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I happen to like a processed sound. I'm not a metalhead (never will be), so the kind of playing that I enjoy is far removed from that style. This is not to say that I don't enjoy some metal, because I do like early Dream Theater for example, but I don't relate much to the genre. For me, I don't like straight distortion unless it has delay and reverb. Something to fatten up the tone and give it more texture.

I also like guitar synthesizers, which I own a Roland unit that's really fun to play around with. There's a reason why I don't play a keyboard or piano, I'm not a pianist and never had an interest in being one, the guitar is the instrument I enjoy playing or I would, obviously, be putting my time into something else.

You may not like Eric Johnson or Shawn Lane, but to say they don't have any original ideas, songwriting ability, or unique tones is quite uneducated. They're recognized by their peers, fans, and critics as being very creative players. I think the comment about Johnson coming from the Satriani "school" of guitar playing shows you don't know much about the guitarist and his style. Have you ever seen the G3 concert with Satriani, Vai, and Johnson? Johnson was by far the most original, creative musician there. Satriani and Vai were more concerned with how many licks they could play. Johnson has never been concerned about this. This note-spinning criticism could be atrributed to Lane, but even Lane was a much better player than Vai and Satriani in my opinion.

Besides Johnson, my biggest influences on guitar have been Bill Frisell, Pat Metheny, John Abercrombie, Jim Hall, Ben Monder, and Terje Rypdal.

In the end, we like what we like. Musically, I have never got along with anybody who plays metal. They don't know what to do in my style and I don't know what to do in their style, so I stay as far away from it as I can.   I'm also not a note-spinner. I find the less I play, the better I sound.

By the way, I respect your opinion and glad we talk about this like two mature people.

[greg]

Have you ever seen the G3 concert with Satriani, Vai, and Johnson? Johnson was by far the most original, creative musician there.

I've had that disc for years... I always thought all three were just extremely creative, anyways- probably on the same level. If you want just all-out creativity, disc 1 of Satriani's Time Machine is the way to go. You could also probably include Vai's "Flexable", but I don't remember liking that one much, so I guess I couldn't recommend it. 

[AndyD.]

You have a very healthy attitude toward playing, one I sympathise with fully.

I'm very familiar with Johnson, own three of his old classic cds, and formerly owned the G3 with Johnson, Vai, and Satriani. To say that Johnson was an improvement over Vai and Satriani is an understatement. Vai and Satriani are very much of the Edward Van Halen school, with a liberal dose of Michael Schenker, without any of the heart. I liked Johnson's G3 Manhattan, and the SRV tribute. On neither of those tracks did he sounded particularly saturated, rather he sounded to me like a much less distorted Satriani tone wise. It could be also that I just don't overall care for his playing much and I don't find him particularly original either. It's obvious he has fit in some very interesting tempo changes, and he's amazingly facile.

Please understand, I've been listening to Rock and Metal all my life, and am employing world class singers and engineers from the U.S., U.K., and Germany for my opera. This doesn't make my opinion any better than yours, however I do know something about Rock and Metal, you state you are more into jazz, which of course is an amazingly music in itself.

Again, I don't mean any offense, you obviously have your tastes, and I fully respect that.

The big problem I have with Shawn Lane is the unmemorability quotient. For what he did, the whole outside jazzy rock school, he was a master; the style just doesn't interest me too much, save for Holdsworth, MacLaughlin, a little Dimeola. I find the other players you mentioned, Bill Frisell, Pat Metheny, John Abercrombie, Jim Hall to be all far more interesting. Metheny and Abercrombie are absolutely spectacular.

[Mirror Image]

I've had that disc for years... I always thought all three were just extremely creative, anyways- probably on the same level. If you want just all-out creativity, disc 1 of Satriani's Time Machine is the way to go. You could also probably include Vai's "Flexable", but I don't remember liking that one much, so I guess I couldn't recommend it. 

I just used the G3 concert as an example for Andy. Honestly, I hated the concert.

[AndyD.]

I just used the G3 concert as an example for Andy. Honestly, I hated the concert.

Overall it was definitely lame, but I honestly did like some of the Johnson, and Vai actually seemed to stop being a robot for a couple of seconds during "For the Love of God".

It gets old hearing all the effects and Edward Van Halen ripoffs, and I do mean Vai and Satriani. 

[Mirror Image]

You have a very healthy attitude toward playing, one I sympathise with fully.

I'm very familiar with Johnson, own three of his old classic cds, and formerly owned the G3 with Johnson, Vai, and Satriani. To say that Johnson was an improvement over Vai and Satriani is an understatement. Vai and Satriani are very much of the Edward Van Halen school, with a liberal dose of Michael Schenker, without any of the heart. I liked Johnson's G3 Manhattan, and the SRV tribute. On neither of those tracks did he sounded particularly saturated, rather he sounded to me like a much less distorted Satriani tone wise. It could be also that I just don't overall care for his playing much and I don't find him particularly original either. It's obvious he has fit in some very interesting tempo changes, and he's amazingly facile.

Please understand, I've been listening to Rock and Metal all my life, and am employing world class singers and engineers from the U.S., U.K., and Germany for my opera. This doesn't make my opinion any better than yours, however I do know something about Rock and Metal, you state you are more into jazz, which of course is an amazingly music in itself.

Again, I don't mean any offense, you obviously have your tastes, and I fully respect that.

The big problem I have with Shawn Lane is the unmemorability quotient. For what he did, the whole outside jazzy rock school, he was a master; the style just doesn't interest me too much, save for Holdsworth, MacLaughlin, a little Dimeola. I find the other players you mentioned, Bill Frisell, Pat Metheny, John Abercrombie, Jim Hall to be all far more interesting. Metheny and Abercrombie are absolutely spectacular.

Don't worry Andy you didn't offend me. It takes a lot to do that! You seem like an honest person and I respect that. I've known many metal musicians and all the ones I've met have been really nice and personable.

I will say that I don't find much time for the guitar these days. When I do play, I'm working on a song, so I'm quite sure that my own technique, or lack thereof, has suffered the past few years. I find when I don't focus on technique and focus more on the music that my overall playing improves.

Since you're a metalhead, I have no doubt that you could slaughter me on the guitar. Funny thing is I actually sat in with some metal musicians about 9 years ago at a club and they told me they really liked what I was playing and I don't really know why...lol, but interestingly enough the lead singer asked me to come into a studio with them to lay down a few rhythm tracks and improvisations, but for whatever reason I couldn't make it. I forget the name of the band. They're based in Atlanta. That's the closest to metal stardom I have ever come! 

In terms of listening and what I'm influenced by now, I seldom listen to guitarists anymore and haven't for the past 10 years or so. I have been listening to other instruments, which has helped my phrasing tremendously.

[AndyD.]

Since you're a metalhead, I have no doubt that you could slaughter me on the guitar. Funny thing is I actually sat in with some metal musicians about 9 years ago at a club and they told me they really liked what I was playing and I don't really know why...lol, but interestingly enough the lead singer asked me to come into a studio with them to lay down a few rhythm tracks and improvisations, but for whatever reason I couldn't make it. I forget the name of the band. They're based in Atlanta. That's the closest to metal stardom I have ever come! 

In terms of listening and what I'm influenced by now, I seldom listen to guitarists anymore and haven't for the past 10 years or so. I have been listening to other instruments, which has helped my phrasing tremendously.

Yes! I love pulling out Du Pre on Schumann's Cello Concerto, Rostropovich, Richter, Serkin, Perlman, or playing Schnittke's Viola Concerto, etc. Once a player starts really listening to other instruments, it starts showing up in his or her playing in a radically positive way. I've been there, it's really exciting! I would hate to ever have the close minded approach I had when I was younger again. There's too much fun in learning!

Many Metal players, especially young ones, are surprised at the more angular, outside style of playing in a jazz guitarists' repetoire. They listen so much to shreddy, unmusical calculator junk that they lose sight of other types of playing, getting too hung up on all l the same guitar tones, harmonic minor and Phrgian scales at warp speed, arpeggios, etc.

When I first heard Holdsworth, I was completely floored. I got spanked by more than one jazz player (and a couple of country guitarists as well, those guys are no joke!). Any player stands to learn so much from jazz guitar, and jazz as a genre itself yields so much inspiration for me.

I have a macabre jazz part in one of my longer epic songs, and it was a complete blast to write and play. It's really astonishing music.

[Mirror Image]

Yes! I love pulling out Du Pre on Schumann's Cello Concerto, Rostropovich, Richter, Serkin, Perlman, or playing Schnittke's Viola Concerto, etc. Once a player starts really listening to other instruments, it starts showing up in his or her playing in a radically positive way. I've been there, it's really exciting! I would hate to ever have the close minded approach I had when I was younger again. There's too much fun in learning!

Many Metal players, especially young ones, are surprised at the more angular, outside style of playing in a jazz guitarists' repetoire. They listen so much to shreddy, unmusical calculator junk that they lose sight of other types of playing, getting too hung up on all l the same guitar tones, harmonic minor and Phrgian scales at warp speed, arpeggios, etc.

When I first heard Holdsworth, I was completely floored. I got spanked by more than one jazz player (and a couple of country guitarists as well, those guys are no joke!). Any player stands to learn so much from jazz guitar, and jazz as a genre itself yields so much inspiration for me.

I have a macabre jazz part in one of my longer epic songs, and it was a complete blast to write and play. It's really astonishing music.

Jazz guitarists will scare the hell out of you! I'm still scared by them to this day even though I consider a lot of what I play jazz.

Let me tell you who else will scare the hell out of you: funk guitarists! I met a funk guitarist in a Guitar Center a few years ago and my jaw was dropped watching him play. I'm not a fan of funk music at all, but what this guy was playing was really inspiring to watch. He burned through improvised riff after riff and his creativity was just amazing.

Jazz has been an never-ending source of inspiration for me, but I have found that classical has had the same effect on me.

[AndyD.]

Jazz guitarists will scare the hell out of you! I'm still scared by them to this day even though I consider a lot of what I play jazz.

Let me tell you who else will scare the hell out of you: funk guitarists! I met a funk guitarist in a Guitar Center a few years ago and my jaw was dropped watching him play. I'm not a fan of funk music at all, but what this guy was playing was really inspiring to watch. He burned through improvised riff after riff and his creativity was just amazing.

Jazz has been an never-ending source of inspiration for me, but I have found that classical has had the same effect on me.

I completely agree. There's this one funk guy, named Thaddeus Hogarth. He's a teacher at one of the big "guitar schools", maybe the one in Boston. The guy is scary funking good. I get very intimidated by his playing: his whole sense of groove, note choices, everything. He's fantastic.

Whenever I hear young kids talk about going for the "title", best guitar player, I bite my tongue. It's a HUGE guitar world out there. I don't even count myself as great, and I've got singers working for me whom have put out full albums and tours with Blackmore, Vai, Malmsteen, Impelliterri, Schenker,  Uli Jon Roth...all massive guitar names.

[George]

Re: Thaddeus Hogarth, I just found this on youtube.

Re: Guitar playing in general, I am not afficiando on this stuff, but starting at 3:30 on this youtube, check the solo. 

This is my other all time favorite guitar tune. 

[Mirror Image]

I completely agree. There's this one funk guy, named Thaddeus Hogarth. He's a teacher at one of the big "guitar schools", maybe the one in Boston. The guy is scary funking good. I get very intimidated by his playing: his whole sense of groove, note choices, everything. He's fantastic.

Whenever I hear young kids talk about going for the "title", best guitar player, I bite my tongue. It's a HUGE guitar world out there. I don't even count myself as great, and I've got singers working for me whom have put out full albums and tours with Blackmore, Vai, Malmsteen, Impelliterri, Schenker,  Uli Jon Roth...all massive guitar names.

I've heard of all those guitar players. All can rip the strings off the guitar with blinding speed. But for me, less is more these days.

[AndyD.]

Re: Thaddeus Hogarth, I just found this on youtube.

Re: Guitar playing in general, I am not afficiando on this stuff, but starting at 3:30 on this youtube, check the solo. 

This is my other all time favorite guitar tune.

Thaddeus is unreal, that's a killer guitar he's got there. Both Eddie Hazel and Parliament kick de cozmic bootay.

[Mirror Image]

Re: Thaddeus Hogarth, I just found this on youtube.

Re: Guitar playing in general, I am not afficiando on this stuff, but starting at 3:30 on this youtube, check the solo. 

This is my other all time favorite guitar tune.

I hate to say this but I'm not impressed with any of the videos you provided. I found the guitar playing to lack feeling and in my opinion is so cliched. Also, in each video the guitar tones were terrible.

This is my idea of guitar playing and the composition is also more masterful:

Pat Metheny Group: Have You Heard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2QcTmQU9qM

[AndyD.]

Check this out, starting about 2:40 on. Light and shade in the playing, drama, beauty, passion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdmVKMfQpLY

[AndyD.]

Pat Metheny Group: Have You Heard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2QcTmQU9qM

I missed answering this the first time. I already know that video, and it is fantastic. Metheny is one guy I wouldn't get within 100 feet of with a guitar. The master!

[Mirror Image]

I missed answering this the first time. I already know that video, and it is fantastic. Metheny is one guy I wouldn't get within 100 feet of with a guitar. The master!

I really dislike YouTube. I don't think this video does any justice to real quality of the actual source.

[AndyD.]

I really dislike YouTube. I don't think this video does any justice to real quality of the actual source.

Me either. They say "high quality" but hq on youtube is garbage for anyone who is really into music.

[Mirror Image]

Me either. They say "high quality" but hq on youtube is garbage for anyone who is really into music.

If you're into music, then YouTube is an excellent resource for hearing something you, otherwise, wouldn't be able to hear, but people should know that they're watching/listening to something of very poor quality and should know this.

[karlhenning]

I'm keen on your sonata, or would like to be!

This is a 'key' to various PDFs and MIDIs, and towards the end are the three movements of the Viola Sonata. Thanks for asking!