Glad To Be Back

[Mirror Image]

Being that quite a bit of this conversation is unavoidably subjective, I'm going to respectfully disagree.

We could go on for ages about this, vive le difference.

I don't think I'm being subjective, I'm being objective. You can read rock history books and the actual history does acknowledge The Edge and Sonic Youth as important exponents in the development of rock music.

[AndyD.]

I don't think I'm being subjective, I'm being objective. You can read rock history books and the actual history does acknowledge The Edge and Sonic Youth as important exponents in the development of rock music.

Again, I respect your opinion, and you. And I imagine that U2 and Sonic Youth are important in Rock music. But, the Edge (from an accomplished guitarist's perspective) mostly only added a very heavily echoed guitar sound, one that he himself admits he stumbled on. His guitar style rhythmically isn't much different from something you'd hear on Led Zeppelin III.

Sonic Youth...I listened to their stuff alot back in the early 90's. They had very good songs. Guitar wise, again this is coming from someone whom is working with some big names in guitar rock, hard rock...the guitar playing isn't much different from what came before them. There are no new techniques from a lead guitar perspective, and I've heard their tones and much of the rhythms in other bands preceeding. Again, I mean absolutely no offense. Obviously both bands had and have alot going for them, and alot of people have been rightfully inspired by them.

As you can guess, there's really no need to defend Edward Van Halen, Sonic Youth, U2, etc. Their music, and success, speaks for itself.

When you write that you're being objective, and referring to books or magazines...you'd have to compare the opinion of a musician, composer, and co-producer whom has worked with worldwide phenomena like Jeff Pilson, Tommy Heart, Veronica Freeman, Graham Bonnet, and Ken Kelly to the opinions of people that write history; the latter have 99.9% of the time failed in their own endeavors in the entertainment world, and utilised their journalism degree to fall back on after they failed. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but that's the accepted truth amongst musicians on the inside. Critics and historians rarely have the musician's resume to back up what they say. They are outsiders, who write mostly to outsiders. To insiders, the biggest guitar phenomena in the past 35 years has been far and away Van Halen. I understand that you don't like him much, but ask most rock guitar players whom have recorded something significant, and they'll agree with me. Hey, I don't like Jimi Hendrix much, but I most certainly agree that he was a MASSIVELY influential rock guitar player.

Again, I mean this with no offense or disrespect meant in the least.

[George]

Edward Van Halen is a different animal. Before him, the innovators were Jeff Beck, Ritchie Blackmore, Tony Iommi. After him, there were no innovators; and though there were many many excellent players, nobody actually originated a whole sound, and incorporated multiple techniques, like Edward did.

What about the guitarists for Tool and Radiohead? (just asking, as I am no expert in this area)

[AndyD.]

What about the guitarists for Tool and Radiohead? (just asking, as I am no expert in this area)

Very cool guitarists and guitar playing. Tool were very creative in the same way the Edge was, with interesting effects. And of course Radiohead had very interesting songs. Obviously, all the players mentioned , here and in Mirror Image's posts, were extremely creative.

[George]

Very cool guitarists and guitar playing. Tool were very creative in the same way the Edge was, with interesting effects.

But surely the guy from Tool has more technical skill? I always thought the Edge (I feel so weird calling a man that) was mostly effects.

[Scarpia]

But surely the guy from Tool has more technical skill? I always thought the Edge (I feel so weird calling a man that) was mostly effects.

I remember no impressive solos from Edge, he just knew how to layer different riffs to create the characteristic U2 sound.  I found "New Years Day" very impressive from that point of view.  Impossible to define the song other than as a bass line, but it created a very distinctive impression. 

I never "got" EVH.  He definitely increased the notes per second that could be achieved, but to what end?  "Jump?"

[AndyD.]

I remember no impressive solos from Edge, he just knew how to layer different riffs to create the characteristic U2 sound.  I found "New Years Day" very impressive from that point of view.  Impossible to define the song other than as a bass line, but it created a very distinctive impression. 

I never "got" EVH.  He definitely increased the notes per second that could be achieved, but to what end?  "Jump?"

New Year's Day very cool song. And I agree as to your assessment of the Edge.

The Jump solo is brilliant, he played that guitar solo to contrast with the keyboard solo that followed it. The guitar solo is quirly, edgy, edge-of-the-seat, while the keyboard solo is more classical, "learned". A stunning achievement in popular music.

[Scarpia]

New Year's Day very cool song. And I agree as to your assessment of the Edge.

The Jump solo is brilliant, he played that guitar solo to contrast with the keyboard solo that followed it. The guitar solo is quirly, edgy, edge-of-the-seat, while the keyboard solo is more classical, "learned". A stunning achievement in popular music.

Just watched the video for "Jump."  Ain't the modern world wonderful.  Even in 1984 I would have had to watch MTV for at least 20 minutes before they would get around to playing "Jump" again.

Yes, the solo was impressive, but shorter than I remembered.  Seems like such a gargantuan ego should rest on something more substantial.  And David Lee Roth.  What an ass!

[AndyD.]

And David Lee Roth.  What an ass!

You're right. But people seem to love clowns...look at Kiss.

[Scarpia]

You're right. But people seem to love clowns...look at Kiss.

Don't get me wrong, Ross was great fun to watch.  Can't say the same about Kiss.

[Philoctetes]

The only guitarists that I really enjoy watching are the dudes from Dragonforce.

http://www.youtube.com/v/0jgrCKhxE1s

[Scarpia]

Maybe someone should stick this stuff in a guitar thread.

[George]

I never "got" EVH.  He definitely increased the notes per second that could be achieved, but to what end?  "Jump?"

I always loved him. I love his work on "Don't Tell Me What Love Can Do" from Balance.

[Scarpia]

I always loved him. I love his work on "Don't Tell Me What Love Can Do" from Balance.

I'm afraid if it wasn't on MTV during a certain 4 year window, I don't know it.   

[karlhenning]

I'm afraid if it wasn't on MTV during a certain 4 year window, I don't know it.   

Now there's a scary thought! ; )

[karlhenning]

You're right. But people seem to love clowns...look at Kiss.

Surgically done.

[MN Dave]

He isn't just playing leads. He's playing tasty rhythm too.

[greg]

Sonic Youth...I listened to their stuff alot back in the early 90's. They had very good songs. Guitar wise, again this is coming from someone whom is working with some big names in guitar rock, hard rock...the guitar playing isn't much different from what came before them. There are no new techniques from a lead guitar perspective, and I've heard their tones and much of the rhythms in other bands preceeding. Again, I mean absolutely no offense. Obviously both bands had and have alot going for them, and alot of people have been rightfully inspired by them.

Have you ever listened to any of their avant-garde albums (such as their SYR albums)?

[AndyD.]

Have you ever listened to any of their avant-garde albums (such as their SYR albums)?

I like some of that. Stil. There was something creepy cool that I heard...Tremes?

[Mirror Image]

I'm not trying to be harsh, but that's the accepted truth amongst musicians on the inside. Critics and historians rarely have the musician's resume to back up what they say. They are outsiders, who write mostly to outsiders. To insiders, the biggest guitar phenomena in the past 35 years has been far and away Van Halen. I understand that you don't like him much, but ask most rock guitar players whom have recorded something significant, and they'll agree with me. Hey, I don't like Jimi Hendrix much, but I most certainly agree that he was a MASSIVELY influential rock guitar player.

Again, I mean this with no offense or disrespect meant in the least.

I guess me playing guitar for 20 years doesn't make me an "insider" or a musician does it? 

I never said that I didn't like Eddie's playing. I think he's a really fine rock player, but he wasn't the last innovator of the guitar. That's my agrument and I'm sticking to it.