Your Own Classical Evolution

Started by Mirror Image, September 13, 2010, 08:17:53 PM

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Mirror Image


Henk

#161
Quote from: AndyD. on October 01, 2010, 03:10:54 PM
All respect, but may I have a name? Has this person released any performances with worldwide distribution?

That implies I just making it up ::).

Two names for you, Ralph van Raat and Bram van Sambeek, both very good performers. They tried in fact hard to defend jazz, but they had to admit the following:

van Raat: Jazz consist either of rather predictable harmonic structures or on the opposite, regarding free jazz, misses form. He mentions the word "schemes" which he finds obvious hard to speak out.
van Sambeek: speaks of "tight schemes" in jazz.

They both admire jazz musicians and are fascinated by jazz. Van Raat talks about them being able to create musical universums.

Notice that this are performers of classical music, a composer would not admire jazz musicians, at least not for the reasons these performers do, one can imagine.

In the interview with van Raat Ravel's Piano Concerto in G comes to speak. Ravel in that Concerto combined the harmonics of jazz with the freedom of Free Jazz without loosing form and that before jazz was invented.

I tried to explain when a scheme is formed at least in my view and brought in Nietzsche's philosophy regarding it and when art becomes Socratic.

AndyD.

Quote from: Henk on October 01, 2010, 03:54:22 PM
That implies I just making it up ::).

I asked with respect, Henk.

I will respect your unique position and move on.
http://andydigelsomina.blogspot.com/

My rockin' Metal wife:


Josquin des Prez

Hey guys, do you know that Henk is Dutch? Just in case you didn't notice...

Josquin des Prez

Quote from: Henk on October 01, 2010, 03:54:22 PM
a composer would not admire jazz musicians

Kapustin would have a word with you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn9fTO7zp5Q

Notice that this is a composer and performer of considerably greater talent and ability then your average classical musician selling albums today.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Henk on October 01, 2010, 03:54:22 PMIn the interview with van Raat Ravel's Piano Concerto in G comes to speak. Ravel in that Concerto combined the harmonics of jazz with the freedom of Free Jazz without loosing form and that before jazz was invented.

Delius was using jazz harmonies way before Ravel or Gershwin were using them, so it's obvious Raat didn't do his homework.

Henk

#166
Quote from: AndyD. on October 01, 2010, 04:01:09 PM
I asked with respect, Henk.

I will respect your unique position and move on.

It's easy to talk about respect, when you use it for your own advantage.

Henk

Quote from: Josquin des Prez on October 01, 2010, 04:05:33 PM
Kapustin would have a word with you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn9fTO7zp5Q

Notice that this is a composer and performer of considerably greater talent and ability then your average classical musician selling albums today.

Kapustin views himself as a composer rather than a jazz musician. He has said, "I was never a jazz musician. I never tried to be a real jazz pianist, but I had to do it because of the composing. I'm not interested in improvisation – and what is a jazz musician without improvisation? All my improvisation is written, of course, and they became much better; it improved them."

I was influenced by Kapustin's music in my ideas of jazz. I invented the term "improved music" in the same sense Kapustin uses it I see now. Nice to notice.

I think a composer as Parra does the same.

Henk

Henk

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 01, 2010, 03:32:19 PM
I think we should all stop fueling the fire. It's obviously Henk doesn't like jazz music or understand the logic behind it.

He'll continue to spew out one ridiculous statement after another and there's no reasoning with him. You might as well be talking to a....



Haha. I just try to eliminate some hard misconceptions. ;D

AndyD.

Quote from: Henk on October 01, 2010, 04:09:16 PM
It's easy to talk about respect, when you use it for your own advantage.


Now you're attacking me? What are you thinking? Have you had a nap today?
http://andydigelsomina.blogspot.com/

My rockin' Metal wife:


MN Dave

All this fuss over someone off his medication.  ::)

Sid

I suppose everyone has a different kind of "evolution." For some, it may include Satie &/or jazz, which has been a bone of contention here. For others, the three B's. For others yet again, more experimental stuff. Everyone has a unique makeup as a listener, and there are different paths to developing one's perception(s)...

Josquin des Prez

Quote from: Henk on October 01, 2010, 04:18:24 PM
Kapustin views himself as a composer rather than a jazz musician.

Yes, of course. But he still respected Jazz enough to adopt the idiom. His music is so contrapuntally dense it obviously couldn't possibly be improvised, hence, why it is "improved" according to the musical aims of the composer. I'm sure in your limited brain this is an indictment that Kapustin sees something wrong with improvisation, even though the composer himself obviously makes no such allusion.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Henk on October 01, 2010, 04:21:42 PM
Haha. I just try to eliminate some hard misconceptions. ;D

There aren't any misconceptions just you making very irrational statements which put your own credibility on very shaky ground.

Henk

Quote from: AndyD. on October 01, 2010, 04:25:16 PM

Now you're attacking me? What are you thinking? Have you had a nap today?

It's true what I said, Andy. And I just don't like the "cold distance" you created with it. So I'm rather pleased to get this reaction from you.

AndyD.

Quote from: Henk on October 04, 2010, 01:03:32 AM
It's true what I said, Andy. And I just don't like the "cold distance" you created with it. So I'm rather pleased to get this reaction from you.

Ah.
http://andydigelsomina.blogspot.com/

My rockin' Metal wife:


Henk

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 01, 2010, 08:00:51 PM
There aren't any misconceptions just you making very irrational statements which put your own credibility on very shaky ground.

As I said, hard misconceptions.

bosniajenny

Like many middle class children, I was "made" to have piano lessons. Luckily, the teacher was good, and I really enjoyed playing (at modest level, I remember looking at Chopin's Revolutionary and thinking "Good God, how on earth is one supposed to play that?!") I particularly enjoyed four-hands piano, and my teacher and I would tear up Dvorak's Slavonic Dances!

But both physically (very small hands) and in musicianship terms I was never going to cut it, although I did get some insight into the technicalities as well as the music.

This was at a time (showing my age!) when the Beatles were first on the scene, and all my contemporaries were well into that, but I never really got hold of it! My Dad was into musicals, and I can still sing from memory some of the numbers from Carousel, Kismet, Oklahoma, South Pacific, The King and I and so on.

On to University. Joined the choir (Mozart, Haydn, Bach, Henze). Accompanied one of our singers who was into Lieder. Then went to Russia - Bolshoi, Kirov and opera, opera, opera!! Also had an abonnement (season ticket) to the Tchaikovskii Hall.

Since then, anything and everything really (I remember seeing a staged version of Moses and Aaron at the Proms, astonishing!) Had about 3 Proms seasons going to almost all the concerts. So a pretty general classical "education". Joined the student group at Covent Garden and went to lots of opera when at home in UK. Also played bass guitar in a punk band......(vocals too!)

Now I am open to all sorts (in a manner of speaking!) From Katy Perry to Prokofiev...., you name it. I have just signed on with the Professor of Singing at Sarajevo Conservatoire, so for the first time (at the age of 60+!) I will get some vocal training.

Music is wonderful, in that it can be everything to everyone.

Philoctetes

Quote from: Henk on October 04, 2010, 01:15:25 AM
As I said, hard misconceptions.

Adding a modifier does not aid rectitude.

Sid

I agree with bosniajenny, one of the big steps in my "classical evolution" was beginning to go to concerts early on. My interest waned a bit in my 20's, but now in my 30's, I can't get enough live music! It's like really great therapy for me, food for the soul. Love it...