Your Own Classical Evolution

[Philoctetes]

You need to make yourself clear too. I took watch out to mean that you were going to get nasty with anybody who couldn't "dig" Satie.

It's not my fault you took it in such a manner, but you can't really compare our two situations. I didn't make a stupid and foolhardy pronouncement.

[Sergeant Rock]

Almost the first of this music I got to know, was in transcription for symphonic band: last movement of the Dvořák New World Symphony,

I wonder if every high school band in the late 60s and 70s played that? Mine did...in fact, we marched to it. Quite thrilling. Other classical works we played: Wagner Siegfried's Funeral Music (prepared for a competition); the Andante con moto from Schubert's Fifth Symphony; Grieg's Piano Concerto and Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue (we had a very talented pianist...and gorgeous too; she lived directly across an open field from my house).

Anyway, back to Dvorak. My girlfriend at the time wanted to hear how it really sounded; her folks had a recording (Bernstein, I think, but it might have been Szell--that seems more logical actually, considering our proximity to Cleveland and the fact it was one of the few classical recordings they owned). She played partially through the first side but didn't hear the tune she knew from playing it in the band. She thought there was something wrong with the recording and asked me to check it out. Her real problem was ADD, of course. She simply didn't have the capacity to listen for more than 20 minutes    That should have warned me against marrying her...but I did anyway five years later. Really dumb move 

Sarge

[karlhenning]

Karl, I don't think I saw Stravinsky anywhere in that post.

To follow up here . . .

I don't remember actually listening to any Stravinsky before I got to Wooster. I remember a great friend of mine in the St Michael's choir mentioning the Symphony of Psalms, but I think it remained nothing more than a name until I got to Wooster.

Once I was in the music program, though . . . I won't get the sequence strictly accurate, but . . . .

My freshman year, I played the Soldier in a Theatre Dept/Music Dept collaborative performance of L'histoire du soldat. We played the Suite from L'oiseau de feu in the college orchestra.

The summer after my freshman year, I went to Blossom to hear the Cleveland Orchestra play the Symphony in Three Movements, with choreography danced by the San Francisco Ballet.

It may not have been until my sophomore year that I had my first exposure to Petrushka, Le sacre, the Symphony of Psalms.  Between the last quarter of the Music History sequence for music majors, and the last quarter of Theory, which was essentially a survey of 20th-c. music, that sophomore year must have been the time of at least partial exposure to (e.g.) the Symphonies of Wind Instruments, Pulcinella, the Dumbarton Oaks Concerto, Agon, the Requiem Canticles.  And with each piece of Stravinsky's which I heard, his position as Probably My Favorite Composer Ever trended firmer.

My junior year I played the Three Pieces for clarinet solo on one or two recitals. I think it was likely my junior year that I went to Severance Hall to hear the Cleveland Orchestra play Le sacre live.

At UVa one of the courses I took while pursuing my Master's was a survey of Stravinsky taught by composer Walter Ross.  So my awareness of the catalogue grew by further leaps and bounds . . . I particularly remember Le baiser de la fée, Threni, the Three Japanese Lyrics, Zvezdoliki, and The Owl and the Pussycat.  Composer Judith Shatin also (in another class) had us investigate Petrushka in more depth for a week or two.

At Buffalo, I took advantage of yet another course entirely devoted to Stravinsky (taught, I think I recall, by John Clough).  Again, got to know yet more of the music;  I particularly remember the Concerto for Two Pianos, the Violin Concerto, Orpheus, Renard.  Another theory class, taught by Martha Hyde, focused on 12-tone music; that was a great opportunity to dig more into Agon; I think it was the first I heard the Variations in memoriam Aldous Huxley;  and I wrote a paper on the Requiem Canticles (not a great paper, but a great opportunity to get to know the piece better).  The Winter break while I was studying for my qualifying exams at Buffalo, I heard the Pittsburgh Symphony play Petrushka live at Heinz Hall.

[karlhenning]

I wonder if every high school band in the late 60s and 70s played that? Mine did...in fact, we marched to it. Quite thrilling. Other classical works we played: Wagner Siegfried's Funeral Music (prepared for a competition); the Andante con moto from Schubert's Fifth Symphony; Grieg's Piano Concerto and Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue (we had a very talented pianist...and gorgeous too; she lived directly across an open field from my house).

Gosh, Sarge, you remind me that we once read in rehearsal a transcription of the Good Friday music from Parsifal . . . which I didn't take to, particularly.  But I remember too we played a transcription of the Prelude to Die Meistersinger, which has always been a favorite.

[Henk]

I didn't make a stupid and foolhardy pronouncement.

rofl

A typical example of a confirming negation.

[Mirror Image]

It's not my fault you took it in such a manner, but you can't really compare our two situations. I didn't make a stupid and foolhardy pronouncement.

You said:

I say, if you can't dig him, watch out.

How exactly is somebody supposed to take this? Look, don't make excuses, which you are doing, just accept the fact that you can't stand anybody else to dislike Satie's music and speak out against him.

[Josquin des Prez]

Bartok > Ligeti > Beethoven > Bach > Mozart > Brahms > Webern > Mahler > Wagner > Early Music > Jazz.

Some progression indeed.

[Henk]

Bartok > Ligeti > Beethoven > Bach > Mozart > Brahms > Webern > Mahler > Wagner > Early Music > Jazz.

Some progression indeed.

Since when have you started to like jazz?

[MN Dave]

Since when have you started to like jazz?

I believe he's an Ellington fan, as am I.

[DavidW]

You know I think that several posters misread the tone of MI's post.  You took him to be trolling, when that emoticon (which is why we have and should use them) clearly indicated that he was just expressing his opinion and having a laugh at how contrary it sounded.  Seriously lighten up you guys, the world won't fall apart if one poster doesn't like Satie.

[DavidW]

which was essentially a survey of 20th-c. music, that sophomore year must have been the time of at least partial exposure to (e.g.) the Symphonies of Wind Instruments, Pulcinella, the Dumbarton Oaks Concerto, Agon, the Requiem Canticles.  And with each piece of Stravinsky's which I heard, his position as Probably My Favorite Composer Ever trended firmer.

I'm tickled to see that Dumbarton Oaks played a roll in your Stravinsky experience, since you know I love that work!

[karlhenning]

I believe he's an Ellington fan, as am I.

Take the A kayak . . . .

[Henk]

Bartok > Ligeti > Beethoven > Bach > Mozart > Brahms > Webern > Mahler > Wagner > Early Music > Jazz.

Some progression indeed.

You call that progression? From Brahms on it went wrong with you, except the step Early Music .

Let me say something on jazz.

Jazz musicians don't have any relation with their instrument. They don't play it, they use it only. Jazz musicians aren't creative, but have a good memory for schemes.

The result can't be music. It only sounds rhythmic and you hear a sequence of harmonics and dissonants.

Jazz musicians though want to make music, but as they perform in fact they give away a show. But they don't want to make a show, because they want to make music. As a visitor I can't form an attitude to that.

Henk

[karlhenning]

Jazz musicians don't have any relation with their instrument. They don't play it, they use it only. Jazz musicians aren't creative, but have a good memory for schemes.

Oh, I think I disagree. How can you say that Coltrane "had no relation" with his saxophone? Django with his guitar? Mingus with his bass? Miles with his trumpet? Dolphy with . . . any of his sundry woodwinds? And they were all highly creative musicians.

And yes, the result certainly is music.

[Mirror Image]

You know I think that several posters misread the tone of MI's post.  You took him to be trolling, when that emoticon (which is why we have and should use them) clearly indicated that he was just expressing his opinion and having a laugh at how contrary it sounded.  Seriously lighten up you guys, the world won't fall apart if one poster doesn't like Satie.

Thank you DavidW. I'm not a troll. I love this music like everybody else here. Why would I spend so much time here if I didn't like classical music? I realize that my opinion was pretty harsh, so I rectified that by restating my opinion in a more objective manner.

I can only hope that we all can just move on from here.

[mc ukrneal]

You call that progression? From Brahms on it went wrong with you, except the step Early Music .

Let me say something on jazz.

I knew I should have stopped there...

[karlhenning]

Thank you DavidW. I'm not a troll. I love this music like everybody else here. Why would I spend so much time here if I didn't like classical music? I realize that my opinion was pretty harsh, so I rectified that by restating my opinion in a more objective manner.

I can only hope that we all can just move on from here.

Aye, I am sure that nor Luke nor I took your remark as trolling at all! No one could reasonably argue with your not liking Satie.

[Henk]

Oh, I think I disagree. How can you say that Coltrane "had no relation" with his saxophone? Django with his guitar? Mingus with his bass? Miles with his trumpet? Dolphy with . . . any of his sundry woodwinds? And they were all highly creative musicians.

And yes, the result certainly is music.

I strongly doubt it. It's part of their show, but they were quite naive and still had the believe they made real music, as the crowd did. Monk only repeated himself, Coltrane could only progress to go in extremes as his "schemes" allowed.

Miles was a star, and he knew it, and this speaks in favor of him.

Why do you think music of Kind of Blue nowadays is used in funny tv shows?

[karlhenning]

Curiously, my ears didn't really open much to jazz, until my classical horizons had expanded . . . even more.

[Mirror Image]

Oh, I think I disagree. How can you say that Coltrane "had no relation" with his saxophone? Django with his guitar? Mingus with his bass? Miles with his trumpet? Dolphy with . . . any of his sundry woodwinds? And they were all highly creative musicians.

And yes, the result certainly is music.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Henk has a right to his opinion of course, but I think to say that jazz musicians don't have any kind of relation to their instrument or that they're not creative is an interesting comment to make since a jazz musician's art relies on nothing but spontaneous creativity and in order to be creative, the jazz musician must know their instrument incredibly well.