Penderecki's Devil

uffeviking · June 22, 2007, 04:49:44 PM

It's not a pretty film and I am glad I watched it in the afternoon yet the high drama of the subject kept me spellbound. Die Teufel von Loudun is based on the historical fact of the burning on the stake in 1634 of the Catholic priest Grandier in the provincial town of Loudun. Aldous Huxley published a 'historical study' in 1952 and from this the Polish director Jerzy Kawalerowitz transported the story to his native Poland and made it into a film. All kinds of detours before Krzysztof Penderecki used it for his first opera which was premiered in Hamburg in 1969. A few weeks after the opera premiere, the Hamburg State Opera took the production to the television studio and the product is the one now available on DVD with Marek Janowski conducting The Hamburg Philharmonic State Orchestra with Tatiana Troyanos and Andrzej Hiolski in the leading roles.

What is it all about? I'd say mainly it's Catholic religious fanaticism, hysterics, spiced up with sexual obsession, exorcism, torture and death at the stake. The prioress of a Ursuline convent is obsessed with unrequited sexual infatuation with the parish priest Grandier and accuses him witchcraft. He denies any guilt but French politics, the Huguenots and Richelieu all influence the action. Rather complicated but my attention was captured by the outstanding acting and singing of Trojanos and Hiolski.

Penderecki's music is not among my most loved compositions, but it somehow went into the background because of the action. Any fan of him will be well rewarded, I believe, watching this work.

Maciek · June 25, 2007, 04:30:19 AM

Quote from: uffeviking on June 22, 2007, 04:49:44 PM
Aldous Huxley published a 'historical study' in 1952 and from this the Polish director Jerzy Kawalerowitz transported the story to his native Poland and made it into a film.

Actually, the Kawalerowicz film (usually considered one of his best, and one of the best Polish movies in general) was based on the Jarosław Iwaszkiewicz story of the same title (Matka Joanna od aniolów).

uffeviking · June 25, 2007, 05:34:46 AM

So, have you seen the film? Listened to it on a CD? What do you think of the Penderecki music? The acting, the singing?

Maciek · June 25, 2007, 11:09:46 AM

I've seen Mother Joan of the Angels, yes. I've only heard Penderecki's opera, and it was in a completely different cast. I'm generally not too fond of later Penderecki, I do like the earlier stuff though, so I like The Devils of Loudun. I think it is quite amazing, and emotionally very moving. I haven't heard it in a very long while so I can't give you any more detailed comments.

Incidentally, could any of the experts tell me if Janowski was actually the one to conducte the premiere? I think that it was while preparing the premiere production of The Devils that Czyz fell out with Penderecki. I don't think he ever conducted a single Penderecki work after that (and prior to the breach he was one of the main promoters of his music worldwide - he premiered most of the pieces for a while). So what I'm not sure about is whether Henryk Czyz conducted during the premiere and left the production some time after that or were the conductors changed at an earlier stage?

uffeviking · June 25, 2007, 06:35:54 PM

I can't answer your question right now because I loaned the DVD to a friend and I have to wait for it to come back to me, with the booklet, which I remember, has a quite a long comment on the history of the opera. I won't forget!

Maciek · June 26, 2007, 12:32:33 AM

Great! I'll be looking forward to finally being set straight about this.

Incidentally, this opera had no more than 3 threads on our old forum!
Penderecki's Devils!
Penderecki: The Devils of Loudun on DVD
Penderecki: The Devils of Loudun

Well, the first of these has more to do with Ken Russell's film but anyway...

uffeviking · June 26, 2007, 06:26:26 PM

Quote from: Maciek on June 26, 2007, 12:32:33 AM
Penderecki: The Devils of Loudun on DVD
[

Thanks for the reminder, Maciek! I really had forgotten all about the previous discussion of this DVD. The threads by MDL on the thread give you more details than I dared to write! MDL wrote two great reviews. Where is he anyhow? Did he come back to the new GMG?

Maciek · June 27, 2007, 02:03:00 AM

I don't remember seeing him here...

MDL · June 27, 2007, 04:50:38 AM

Quote from: uffeviking on June 26, 2007, 06:26:26 PM
Thanks for the reminder, Maciek! I really had forgotten all about the previous discussion of this DVD. The threads by MDL on the thread give you more details than I dared to write! MDL wrote two great reviews. Where is he anyhow? Did he come back to the new GMG?

Did you miss me? I've been on holiday for two weeks.

I'm glad to see there's some interest in Penderecki's The Devils of Loudun. I've already written quite a lot about this opera in the past, so I think I've said said enough, although I'd still be interested to know if anybody has heard the revised version that includes the two extra scenes that Penderecki added in the '70s, as well as the choral coda that was omitted from the Hamburg performance. As I said in a previous post, I've got my fingers crossed for a new recording of the complete version conducted by Wit on Naxos, although I'm not sure how likely that is.

MDL · June 27, 2007, 05:04:09 AM

Last word on the subject. Well, for now. It's a bit of an obsession for me, so I'm sure I'll be returning to it before too long.

The Devils drew many scathing reviews when it first appeared in 1969, and the British press were pretty sniffy about the work when Sadler's Wells brought it to London in (I think) 1973, so it is gratifying to see that the UK press has been pretty enthusiastic about the DVD. I wonder how may have sold.

jochanaan · June 27, 2007, 05:24:58 PM

It's obviously a work whose time has come.

MDL · June 28, 2007, 05:04:41 AM

Quote from: Maciek on June 25, 2007, 11:09:46 AM
I've seen Mother Joan of the Angels, yes. I've only heard Penderecki's opera, and it was in a completely different cast. I'm generally not too fond of later Penderecki, I do like the earlier stuff though, so I like The Devils of Loudun. I think it is quite amazing, and emotionally very moving. I haven't heard it in a very long while so I can't give you any more detailed comments.

Incidentally, could any of the experts tell me if Janowski was actually the one to conducte the premiere? I think that it was while preparing the premiere production of The Devils that Czyz fell out with Penderecki. I don't think he ever conducted a single Penderecki work after that (and prior to the breach he was one of the main promoters of his music worldwide - he premiered most of the pieces for a while). So what I'm not sure about is whether Henryk Czyz conducted during the premiere and left the production some time after that or were the conductors changed at an earlier stage?

I had no idea Czyz fell out with Penderecki. What caused that? I think Czyz conducted the world premiere, but Janowski took over for the recording sessions.

uffeviking · June 28, 2007, 08:18:05 AM

I aim to please!

I emailed my friend, who borrowed the Devils and asked him to check the booklet of the DVD and this is what he just sent me, quoting from the booklet:

Penderecki was still scribbling on the score during rehearsals . . . and it was due in no small part to the goodwill and adventurous natre of all involved that the premiere went ahead as planned on June 20, 1969. . . . On the conducting rostrum for the occasion was Henryk Czyz, a man well-versed in Penderecki's music and the work's dedicatee. The prodcution was directed by Konrad Swinarski, the man who five years earlier had given the composer (and future librettist) a copy of Whiting's text. But the reaction of critics and public alike was a mixture of embarrassment and disappointment. MOreover, there was little time to learn any lessons from this first performance, since an alternative premiere conducted by Janos Kulka followed just two days later in Stuttgart. . . . Just a few weeks after the premiere, the Hamburg State Opera took its production into the television studios with a cast list almost identical to that of the opening night. The conductor on this occasion was Marek Janowski."

Nothing about a falling out--it is interesting that Penderecki had dedicated the opera to Czyz, so there must have been a major "break" to destroy such a friendship and collaboration.

The last short paragraph is my friend's remark.

Does this help?

uffeviking · June 28, 2007, 08:21:52 AM

cont'd:

Got a second short email from my friend:

Hi again, Lis--a bit more. In the small biographical paragraphs about the artists, there is also the following about Janowski:

"He joined the Hamburg State Opera as chorus master in 1969, and was immediately handed the baton for the studio production by Henryk Czyz, the conductor of the work's premiere."

It may be that the writers of the booklet did not want to go into details about a rift between Penderecki and Czyz, but this passage suggests that Czyz simply could not or did not want to conduct the studio performances and let Janowski take over. No reference to an argument or fight. Just for what it's worth. Tom

Did this settle the issue or muddle it? I tried to help, honest! 0:)

uffeviking · June 28, 2007, 08:25:19 AM

You thought that was the end? Think again! My friend Tom is very thorough when researching and he sent me this one:

Hi, again, Lis--Not to bore you too much, but one more detail---Henryk Czyz was the conductor of the soundtrack music for the movie The Exorcist, which included at least three pieces by Penderecki, so it would not be true that he never again conducted any of Penderecki's music, since that movie was years after the premiere of The Devils. Just fyi.
All best, Tom

Maciek · June 28, 2007, 11:54:32 AM

Lis, thanks for all the information!

Time for me to have my say.

Here's what I know (or think I know

): Until "The Devils..." Czyz was a Penderecki enthusiast. Since he was probably the best Polish conductor at that time, and one widely publicized, I think he helped quite a bit to further Penderecki's career both in Poland and abroad (Czyz travelled a real lot and was practically always lauded by the press; a memorable quote - at least one that I remember - is one of the German reviewers calling him "the Polish answer to Bernstein" - indeed he is said to have had a very joyful appearance and a great "stage presence"; I'd say all of his recordings I've heard are absolutely fantastic). A good example would be the fact that he chose Penderecki's Polymorphia to present during one of the TV programs he led (something similar to Bernstein's young people's concerts, only aimed at grown up viewers) - certainly a daring feat, and one not without its risks - but imagine how it must have helped to popularize Penderecki's music!

Anyway, I'm quite sure there was a major rift during the reherseals of the opera. But both gentlemen behaved gentlemanly about it, and practically nothing was ever revealed to the press. I don't think anyone really knows what happened exactly but I'm quite sure that Czyz not only stopped conducting Penderecki after that - he stopped playing avantgarde music altogether. In fact, he appended a very provacative motto to one of the pieces he composed himself some time after that (he was a talented composer too, and again similar to Bernstein, with lots of jazz influences) - the motto came from Vonnegut ("Cat's Cradle", I think) and stated more or less that there are times when we choose a mistaken path, and the only way to repair that mistake is to take a few steps back. The piece with this motto was of course a very "traditional" one (I'm not sure which of his pieces it was but it might have been his very beautiful "Canzona di barocco"...).

So now the thing we should probably sort out is whether Czyz indeed recorded anything for the Excorcist. My suspicion would be that he did not - the movie soundtrack simply used previously recorded material. Perhaps if someone has it, it would be possible to check? Because I may be wrong about this - it all happened before my time, maybe the break up was temporary? Maybe Czyz returned to avantgarde music later (I know one of my teachers at music school had been his conducting student in the 80s or early 90s, and yet she was also a perfectly "normal" contemporary composer, one of Kotonski's students...)?

The irony of it all, of course, is the course Penderecki's own music would take in due time...

greg · June 28, 2007, 11:56:29 AM

give me, give me, give me.......

karlhenning · June 28, 2007, 12:06:31 PM

Thanks, Lis & Maciek, I am enjoying lurking here . . . .

Maciek · June 28, 2007, 12:09:28 PM

Quote from: greg on June 28, 2007, 11:56:29 AM
give me, give me, give me.......

Oh, so you want Czyz, do you? (

I know you don't, I know...

But that's just your mistake, you know...)

Well, I'd suggest his Beethoven 5th, which is superb, his Beethoven 1st PC (with Poblocka), which is peerless, his Haydn Cello Concerto (with Shafran), which has no equal, and his very own Etude for orchestra, which has never been recorded. Other than that - only the Cello Concerto is available on CD.

Also Schumann's Paradise and the Peri - the first quadraphonic recording in history (well, that's what I've been told - but don't quote me on it). He also did a real lot of opera conducting (was director of the Poznan Opera for a while).

Oh, and how could I have forgotten: his Peer Gynt (recently rereleased) can easily beat Beecham's feeble effort!

But, of course, it's his Penderecki recordings that you will find yourself coming back to most often...

Quote from: karlhenning on June 28, 2007, 12:06:31 PM
Thanks, Lis & Maciek, I am enjoying lurking here . . . .

You're welcome, Karl. There's lots of Czyz, of course, on those Penderecki recordings you'll be getting.

Maciek · June 20, 2008, 04:36:31 PM

A couple of months ago I re-read one of Czyz's memoirs, and to my complete astonishment discovered that he gives in it a pretty precise account of his own falling out with Penderecki. This was quite a shock, as I had read the book before (though, admittedly, quite a few years earlier) and had absolutely no memory of reading that story - all I did remember was Ludwik Erhardt's book about Penderecki (which I must have read later), where the whole matter is presented in a very vague, ambiguous manner.

Obviously, Czyz is not an impartial observer (though, personally, I trust him 0:)), but he does give a lot of details.

Anyway, you can find my rendition of his version of the story here:
Part I
Part II.