French Baroque Music

Started by Que, June 23, 2007, 12:08:07 AM

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Mandryka

#640
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on July 23, 2017, 10:39:02 PM
Beautiful Rameau suites by Fredrick Haas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn6n5VDVlxw&feature=share

I didn't know that recording existed. Rameau's a bit off radar for me.

I just noticed a CD of music by Scarlatti by him on Tidal and Qobuz, he's playing his Hemsch,  initial impressions are that it's not  fast and furious. Scarlatti-arthratti. It's his second Scarlatti, the first, which I have, is on the harpsichord at Arras.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

milk

I'm on this piano kick lately. Sokolov playing F. Couperin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBB3mhPXshY

Sokolov gets points for adventure.

bioluminescentsquid



Oh yes. Some swashbuckling, fearless, swaggering Forqueray con cojones. Koopman has some competition. Fine original 18th-century Collesse harpsichord to boot.

Que

#643


Quote from: André on January 27, 2018, 11:16:43 AM
For the past 25 years I've been perfectly content to listen to the Hervé Niquet discs. But my little finger is itching to tell me it might be time for another take on these marvelous works. Thanks for this, I wasn't aware of these discs' existence. And Harry's endorsement is, of course, a further incentive to be serious about it  ;).

Quote from: André on January 27, 2018, 12:38:14 PM
Good evening, Que!

I have the Adda discs (as well as the same team's Campra works, another font of musical greatness). They are indeed excellent, but since they were recorded 30 years ago, I guesss things have changed - maybe substantially. Can you elaborate on the musical and technical aspects of these versions by Les Passions ?

Hi André, happy to oblige!  :) Though my means of comparison are limited: I have one of the Niquet  (reissued on Accord) and
Herreweghe's recording of the Requiem. What I know is that Andrieu prepared a revised edition for these recordings and that the Requiem is performed without later alterations. He uses a small choir of around 10, plus soloists. Important point is probably the low tuning at 392 Hz, which gives the music a deep, mellow glow. The Niquet sounds definitely brighter (and quicker). No big names amongst the soloists expect for Bruno Boterf, but they are uniformly good and quite up to their task.The performances I would describe, for lack of more precise terms, as very natural and flowing with measured tempi, spirited but never hard pressed.

Recordings are made in 2008, 2010 and 2012 in the St. Pierre des Chartres, Toulouse. The sound stage is very natural with church ambiance in moderation. Choir and orchestra sound very much integrated, less highlighted/ separated than in some other recordings. Perhaps less than some would prefer.

Most online reviews are in French, but naturally is no problem for you... (For me it's hard work, I use Google translate if I'm lazy... ;))

http://cmsdt-spectacles.blogspot.nl/2017/07/jean-gilles-musique-sacree-les-passions.html

http://www.musebaroque.fr/eh-bien-elle-ne-sera-executee-pour-personne-et-jen-veux-avoir-letrenne/

http://www.musebaroque.fr/jerusalem-convertere-ad-dominum-dem-tuum/

http://www.musebaroque.fr/aix-vaut-bien-une-messe/

In English:

http://www.saladelcembalo.org/cdreviews/gilles.html

https://www.amazon.com/Requiem-Jean-Gilles/dp/B002ZXZJ0G#customerReviews

Q

André

Great, thanks very much, Que !

Getting the french reviews is a labour of love for which I'm very grateful. They are extremely well-written and informative. I've noted a couple of reservations concerning what the reviewer deems a less than optimal energy level in some of the works, but from what I read it seems consistent with Andrieu's POV. He seems to have attempted to revert to Gilles' original intention in terms of the works' conceptions. The Requiem in particular has been subjected to numerous 'graffiti' in the XVIIIth century, adding an introductory march on the timpani, as well as adding clarinets and other instruments. That's how it was performed for the funeral services of Rameau, king Louis XV, etc. In Gilles' time church music was more devotional than ceremonial. That inevitably colours the concept quite differently.

Since I have the Niquet discs (which suffer from a certain 'dryness', again according to the reviewer), then Andrieu should prove a nice foil. I also have a K617 disc of petits et grands motets with the ensemble Les Festes d'Orphée under Guy Laurent, so that, too, will serve as a comparison to the new set. I have ordered it from Amazon, but it's 'back order' right now. Hopefully I will get it.

Thanks again, I really appreciate !!  ;)

André

Quote from: Que on January 28, 2018, 12:22:05 AM


Hi André, happy to oblige!  :) Though my means of comparison are limited: I have one of the Niquet  (reissued on Accord) and
Herreweghe's recording of the Requiem. What I know is that Andrieu prepared a revised edition for these recordings and that the Requiem is performed without later alterations. He uses a small choir of around 10, plus soloists. Important point is probably the low tuning at 392 Hz, which gives the music a deep, mellow glow. The Niquet sounds definitely brighter (and quicker). No big names amongst the soloists expect for Bruno Boterf, but they are uniformly good and quite up to their task.The performances I would describe, for lack of more precise terms, as very natural and flowing with measured tempi, spirited but never hard pressed.

Recordings are made in 2008, 2010 and 2012 in the St. Pierre des Chartres, Toulouse. The sound stage is very natural with church ambiance in moderation. Choir and orchestra sound very much integrated, less highlighted/ separated than in some other recordings. Perhaps less than some would prefer.

Most online reviews are in French, but naturally is no problem for you... (For me it's hard work, I use Google translate if I'm lazy... ;))

http://cmsdt-spectacles.blogspot.nl/2017/07/jean-gilles-musique-sacree-les-passions.html

http://www.musebaroque.fr/eh-bien-elle-ne-sera-executee-pour-personne-et-jen-veux-avoir-letrenne/

http://www.musebaroque.fr/jerusalem-convertere-ad-dominum-dem-tuum/

http://www.musebaroque.fr/aix-vaut-bien-une-messe/

In English:

http://www.saladelcembalo.org/cdreviews/gilles.html

https://www.amazon.com/Requiem-Jean-Gilles/dp/B002ZXZJ0G#customerReviews

Q

Thanks a million !

Check my post in that French Baroque thread (I didn't know there was one  :-X).

André

Que

#646
Quote from: André on January 28, 2018, 08:31:48 AM
Great, thanks very much, Que !

Getting the french reviews is a labour of love for which I'm very grateful. They are extremely well-written and informative. I've noted a couple of reservations concerning what the reviewer deems a less than optimal energy level in some of the works, but from what I read it seems consistent with Andrieu's POV. He seems to have attempted to revert to Gilles' original intention in terms of the works' conceptions. The Requiem in particular has been subjected to numerous 'graffiti' in the XVIIIth century, adding an introductory march on the timpani, as well as adding clarinets and other instruments. That's how it was performed for the funeral services of Rameau, king Louis XV, etc. In Gilles' time church music was more devotional than ceremonial. That inevitably colours the concept quite differently.

Since I have the Niquet discs (which suffer from a certain 'dryness', again according to the reviewer), then Andrieu should prove a nice foil. I also have a K617 disc of petits et grands motets with the ensemble Les Festes d'Orphée under Guy Laurent, so that, too, will serve as a comparison to the new set. I have ordered it from Amazon, but it's 'back order' right now. Hopefully I will get it.

Thanks again, I really appreciate !!  ;)

André,  I can confirm the relatively lower level of energy. I think Andrieu does that as part of a purposely reverential aporoach.
Personally I'd preferred a little bit more zest...

I have the K617 disc with the ensemble Les Festes d'Orphée and I think it is the recording that comes actually the closest in approach I can think of.

Q

Mandryka

#647


Blandine Verlet's 2018 recording of François Couperin's Dominos and other pieces. Serious and noble, surprisingly so in this music, and very expressive too - slow and pained -  in my opinion the music thrives under this sort of treatment and she makes it sound very interesting indeed. I think this is one to hear if you've got an open mind, even those who are normally allergic to François Couperin.

Great harpsichord, a copy of a Ruckers/Hemsch, outstanding sound engineering.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2018, 12:44:22 PM
.....this is one to hear if you've got an open mind, even those who are normally allergic to François Couperin.

You got me there.  :)
γνῶθι σεαυτόν

Mandryka

#649
Quote from: (: premont :) on February 09, 2018, 06:00:56 AM
You got me there.  :)
Well I knew that! I feel much the same, but nevertheless I found myself affected by Verlet in this recording. I can't say any more than that.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Draško

It seems 2018 will be a good year for Michel-Richard Delalande fans. Two new recordings of Grands Motets are forthcoming, I believe including four previously unrecorded pieces.

Schneebeli on K617 in September:
QuoteGRANDS MOTETS de MICHEL - RICHARD DE LALANDE Venite exultemus & Dominus regnavit (inédits, premier enregistrement) et De profundis LES PAGES & CHANTRES DU CMBV / COLLEGIUM MARIANUM (dir. Jana Semeradova) Direction : Olivier SCHNEEBELI  1CD disponible août / septembre 2018 4)

Dumestre with Le Poeme harmonique on Alpha next month:



:D :D :D


Vinbrulé

#651
Quote from: Mandryka on February 08, 2018, 12:44:22 PM


Blandine Verlet's 2018 recording of François Couperin's Dominos and other pieces. Serious and noble, surprisingly so in this music, and very expressive too - slow and pained -  in my opinion the music thrives under this sort of treatment and she makes it sound very interesting indeed. I think this is one to hear if you've got an open mind, even those who are normally allergic to François Couperin.

Great harpsichord, a copy of a Ruckers/Hemsch, outstanding sound engineering.
I'm fairly satisfied with the Baumont complete recording of Couperin's harpsichord music, but ..... much more satisfied with this Verlet single disc.   Deeply involving , and gorgeous sound quality.   Pity it's so difficult, or impossible, to find the other Verlet recordings ( Couperin, Bach, De la Guerre, Froberger ..... and her old Philips recordings are never been transported on CD !! )
I will keep it as a treasure, besides my other favorites Pierre Hantai and Skip Sempè : three single CDs that are worth as much as a complete recording, obviously IMHO . 
I'm seriously tempted to buy the Violaine Cochard on Ambroisie label .  The trailers I've heard on Amazon seem to me very good. 
Has anyone tried the Moroney's Francois Couperin recordings on Plectra label ?

Vinbrulé

These days I have added this lady composer to my list of friends   :)

Mandryka

Quote from: Vinbrulé on April 18, 2018, 02:29:13 AM
These days I have added this lady composer to my list of friends   :)

Yes very good, though I've not had a chance to get into either of those recordings. The ones I've been listening to most have been Blandine Verlet and Karen Flint -- solo music only, I don't know the chamber music at all.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Vinbrulé

#654
Quote from: king ubu on May 22, 2017, 09:32:12 PM
Just in case, there's a second one - I think these are excellent!

[asin]B001C4E6C6[/asin]
Magical playing from Cochard, this is the second double Couperin she did , I'm going to dive into the first .
I think she is not going to record the complete Couperin keyboard opus. She stopped here.
Pity. But this is really outstanding. 
Brava Violaine !!!   

UP TO DATE :  Another listening session to these CDs convinced me to put them in the recent Desert Island List , together with William Waters' Reusner and Alina Rotaru's Froberger.        :)

Moonfish

This looks interesting!

Splendeurs de Versailles

I found a review for Splendeurs de Versailles on MusicWeb!   :)
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Mar/Splendeurs_Versailles_260.htm

"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Moonfish

#656
I'm a great admirer of Marin Marais. His compositions are truly mesmerizing. Any other Marias fans here at GMG?

Marin Marais: Intégrale du 4ème livre de pièces de viole
Six suites d'un goût français
Suites IV - II - III

Charbonnier, Rousseau, Buraglia, Trocelier



"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Moonfish

Les menus plaisirs de Louis XIV de Paris à Versailles

Veronique Gens (soprano), Guillemette Laurens (mezzo-soprano), Christophe Rousset (harpsichord/conductor), Jaap ter Linden (cello), Concerto Palatino, Ensemble Correspondances, London Oboe Band, Trio Sonnerie, La Chapelle Royale, Les Arts Florissants, Cantus Cölln, La Simphonie du Marais, Gli Incogniti, Philippe Herreweghe, William Christie, Konrad Junghänel, Hugo Reyne, Amandine Beyer.

Samples via Harmonia Mundi: http://www.harmoniamundi.com/#!/albums/2118

Review on MusicWeb: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2016/Jan/Plaisirs_Louis_HMX2908717.htm



Ad from Harmonia Mundi
https://www.youtube.com/v/FNPR5i6yUBY
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Que

Quote from: Moonfish on May 27, 2018, 06:00:20 PM
I'm a great admirer of Marin Marais. His compositions are truly mesmerizing. Any other Marias fans here at GMG?

Marin Marais: Intégrale du 4ème livre de pièces de viole
Six suites d'un goût français
Suites IV - II - III

Charbonnier, Rousseau, Buraglia, Trocelier





Oh yes, and preferably by Charbonnier et al!  :)

It is a real pity that the reissue of the complete 4th Book was a one off, due to the demise of the French company that ran Pierre Vérany... ::)

Q

Mandryka

#659


I'm listening to Antoine's second and third suites in Deverite's Complete Forqueray. Dévérité's position is made clear in the booklet - he believes that Antoine Forqueray achieved a synthesis of Italian and French styles - lots of emotion (France) expressed ardently and extrovertly (Italy).  I'm not sure how well Dévérité can walk the walk, but I do think that his approach seems to make the music sound a bit like François Couperin.

In the pursuit of expressiveness Dévérité sometimes slows things right down so that we can really savour the way the music moves us, this is something that Blandine Rannou tried in her Forqueray recording too.

There's an aspect of Dévérité's harpsichord style which I think is important for assessing his success: he is lyrical, with phrases tending to be long and running smoothly into each other,  and he's flat  - there's not a great sense of relief, or of one voice interrupting another. Put another way, there is no quirky gnarled crotchetiness - Antoine Forqueray was reputed to be a bit of a bugger in real life and I guess some performers have made his music sound tough and bad tempered and quirky too. But not Dévérité.

So does Dévérité's  combination of long phrases, flatness and slow tempos produce something which is a bit too bland to be interesting to hear? I leave the question unanswered.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen