What's the point of listening to so much music?

Started by Saul, October 12, 2010, 06:41:48 PM

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Philoctetes

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 12, 2010, 08:17:35 PM

Did you even read my posts?

Of course not. What were you expectations of a thread started by Saul, though?

Saul

Quote from: Philoctetes on October 12, 2010, 08:19:08 PM
Of course not. What were you expectations of a thread started by Saul, though?

I even read yours so sit tight.

DavidW

MI, seriously don't waste your time with Saul.  He is not reading your posts.  He wants to have a monologue here.  Philo is right.  Not worth it.

Saul

Quote from: DavidW on October 12, 2010, 08:28:03 PM
MI, seriously don't waste your time with Saul.  He is not reading your posts.  He wants to have a monologue here.  Philo is right.  Not worth it.

I have no idea what makes you think that I didnt read the posts. God knows I have read every single one of them.
But if you don't want to participate, then don't. I couldnt care less. Its a forum.. chill out..

Sid

The fact is, Saul, as much as you don't seem to like the people who buy recording after recording of the same piece, without these people there would be no classical music cd market. I'm not one of those people, I usually only buy one recording. As I said, I have ways to access other interpretations if I am interested. But let's face it, without those people who like to buy umpteen different versions of the same piece, we wouldn't have any market for classical music cd's (same with concerts, if people were only interested in seeing a piece live once in their lives, there would probably be no classical music concerts to speak of)...

Saul

#25
Quote from: Sid on October 12, 2010, 09:10:18 PM
The fact is, Saul, as much as you don't seem to like the people who buy recording after recording of the same piece, without these people there would be no classical music cd market. I'm not one of those people, I usually only buy one recording. As I said, I have ways to access other interpretations if I am interested. But let's face it, without those people who like to buy umpteen different versions of the same piece, we wouldn't have any market for classical music cd's (same with concerts, if people were only interested in seeing a piece live once in their lives, there would probably be no classical music concerts to speak of)...

Sid, I think that we agree with each other to a degree. Yes I know that this whole thing is a huge money generating business for some people. I also think that attending a concert is not the same as a recording, and I also understand the need and motivation for people to attend concerts, at least once in their lives as you said, but I'm glad that you acknowledge to some degree that obsessive cd collection and performer comparisons can be counterproductive.
I have no problem with someone wanting to listen to 2 or 3 versions of the same work, but to get every single recording out there, has to do with the hobby of collecting things, rather with really appreciating music for what it is, and what it can be or what it was.

Too bad that nowdays almost everything has become a 'hobby'. Everthing has to be 'collected' like some sports cards.

Sid

Yes, well the classical cd market is a business just like any other (& a very fickle one at that - things can be here today, gone tomorrow & out of print). But I think it's still important to have new recordings made of the old repertoire (as well as world premiere recordings of more recent and some of the rarer stuff). Every generation has a different "take" on the classics, and it's interesting to hear this. A major example of this is the original instruments movement which since it's emergence around the 1980's has lead to a reassessment of much of the older repertoire. New ways of playing, like this, do emerge & it's important to have these things recorded so that future generations can understand why and how things were played in the past. As they say, if you don't understand the past, you won't understand the present, let alone be able to anticipate things in the future...

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 12, 2010, 08:17:35 PM
Did you even read my posts?

MI, you apparently haven't met Saul before. He's our resident brick wall. Really, what is the point of trying to talk to him about classical music when he says:

"I figured out that all these performances are the same"

"After listening to all this music for a number of times, Chopin, Bach, Mendelssohn, Beethoven and the rest, I don't really feel a great urge to listen to them again."

"I don't feel any strong urge to listen. And especially when I do listen I don't bother myself about the performers so much."


The guy doesn't even like classical music. I don't know why he comes here.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Brian

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 13, 2010, 01:31:36 AM
MI, you apparently haven't met Saul before. He's our resident brick wall. Really, what is the point of trying to talk to him about classical music when he says:

"I figured out that all these performances are the same"

"After listening to all this music for a number of times, Chopin, Bach, Mendelssohn, Beethoven and the rest, I don't really feel a great urge to listen to them again."

"I don't feel any strong urge to listen. And especially when I do listen I don't bother myself about the performers so much."


The guy doesn't even like classical music. I don't know why he comes here.

Sarge

Add to that

"I'm sure if there would have been one good recording of [Beethoven's] sonatas, I would have liked it."

Quote from: Saul on October 12, 2010, 06:41:48 PM
After listening to all this music for a number of times, Chopin, Bach, Mendelssohn, Beethoven and the rest, I don't really feel a great urge to listen to them again and again. Their music is in my head, and I know them already, so why spend so much time, money and attentiveness to something that is so familiar?

I am very, very good at memorizing music, and can play the complete Beethoven symphonies in my head, but that is still no substitute for the joy and physical excitement of actually HEARING them!

Quote from: Saul on October 12, 2010, 07:03:08 PM
Its like tasting every single apple from a different country and deciding now which apple is the best? The French apple or the Big Apple from NY , or the Italian apple, or the Spanish apple...

The Big Apple isn't an apple.

The new erato

Having to ask the question means that you wouldn't understand the answer.

Saul

Quote from: Sid on October 12, 2010, 09:53:00 PM
Yes, well the classical cd market is a business just like any other (& a very fickle one at that - things can be here today, gone tomorrow & out of print). But I think it's still important to have new recordings made of the old repertoire (as well as world premiere recordings of more recent and some of the rarer stuff). Every generation has a different "take" on the classics, and it's interesting to hear this. A major example of this is the original instruments movement which since it's emergence around the 1980's has lead to a reassessment of much of the older repertoire. New ways of playing, like this, do emerge & it's important to have these things recorded so that future generations can understand why and how things were played in the past. As they say, if you don't understand the past, you won't understand the present, let alone be able to anticipate things in the future...

Well, I don't really think its necessary to record so much music, with your take of past, present , future...for music's sake.
But yes, it has become a major business, and just like every business that wants to generate sales, hype is a major selling tool.

And for those who say that I don't like classical music, they make no sense and its absolutely silly to even suggest that. I don't know why one needs to hear the same piece of music played by 20 or 30 different performers in order to 'really like something'. How about just ;listening to the music and enjoying it?

No that would be too simple now would it?

But who said that simplicity is wrong, or bad, its actually way better then putting yourself into this ordeal of eating every single apple in the world until you finally realize that you like apples. I love music enough to enjoy it right away without the whole mambo jumbo attachments.

Cato

Ah!  Another topic from Saul another quixotic quest!

Indeed, what is the point?

The point...is to think, to dream, to link, to calm, to purge, to create, to enjoy, to inflame, to remember, to exorcise, to become different, to be startled, to float in wonder, and sundry other possibilities!
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Saul

Quote from: Cato on October 13, 2010, 04:24:06 AM
Ah!  Another topic from Saul another quixotic quest!

Indeed, what is the point?

The point...is to think, to dream, to link, to calm, to purge, to create, to enjoy, to inflame, to remember, to exorcise, to become different, to be startled, to float in wonder, and sundry other possibilities!

How the greats back then listened to music?
Did they listen in the manner that you suggest?

No they didn't, and no one would even suggest that they didn't like music.

Was Beethoven busy running around to hear every version of Mozart's symphony No. 40?

No, he did something else, and that is composed. He created new music that all of us enjoy so much today.
And I know that if he would have been living today, he wouldn't have been busy collecting and comparing music obsessively, but rather he would have concentrated with creating.
Technology is largely responsible for this addictive and obsessive collecting ritual that we have today, but back then people just enjoyed music, as simple as that.

Florestan

Quote from: Saul on October 13, 2010, 04:32:31 AM
Technology is largely responsible for this addictive and obsessive collecting ritual that we have today, but back then people just enjoyed music, as simple as that.
Isn't it the same technology that offered you the chance to make your music known?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Saul

Quote from: Florestan on October 13, 2010, 04:35:22 AM
Isn't it the same technology that offered you the chance to make your music known?

Technology can be used for positive or negative things.

I'm against the negative aspect of technology. It all depends how one uses the technology, to what purpose.


Scarpia

Quote from: Saul on October 13, 2010, 04:37:05 AM
Technology can be used for positive or negative things.

I'm against the negative aspect of technology. It all depends how one uses the technology, to what purpose.

I think in this case most people would disagree with you as to which is the positive and which the negative use of technology.   ;D

Brian

Quote from: Scarpia on October 13, 2010, 04:38:12 AM
I think in this case most people would disagree with you as to which is the positive and which the negative use of technology.   ;D

I was trying to think of a nicer way of saying exactly this.  ;D

Florestan

Quote from: Saul on October 13, 2010, 04:37:05 AM
Technology can be used for positive or negative things.

I'm against the negative aspect of technology. It all depends how one uses the technology, to what purpose.
Then it's not technology that is responsible, as you just stated.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Saul

#38
Quote from: Scarpia on October 13, 2010, 04:38:12 AM
I think in this case most people would disagree with you as to which is the positive and which the negative use of technology.   ;D

Silly you!  ;D

Well, to record your new music and try to let people know about it, is innocent, and there is nothing wrong with it.
But to run around to look for every recording of a particular symphony has left many people with an obsessive practice and to some extend with empty pockets.
I remember that the very first recordings that I listened to when I was a teenager, were the best, and I have not found any better recordings then those.
For example when I was 15 I purchased a cassette of Chopin's Piano concerto No. 1 by a Pianist named Daniel Doshe. Very much unknown pianist, but his performance of the Chopin Concerto was the best one I have ever heard hands down, and I can't even find a recording of this pianist anywhere.

Eventually I purchased more recordings of this same concerto by different performers, but they didn't top him.

The same is with the Bach works, and I could go on and on but you got the point.

Florestan

Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini