The Lindsay String Quartet

[Mandryka]

There are a couple of recordings by them which I would say are among the best string quartet recordings that I know – by best I mean the most personal, impassioned, spontaneous sounding, musically convincing.


One is their bog standard studio Beethoven Op 132. The Heiliger Dankgesang especially.

The other is their live Haydn Op 76/5 on ASV

I know they have their detractors. And I can well believe than my response to chamber music mmay be unrefined.

So I'm keen to know what you think of them, what (if anything) they did well, and why (if ever) they failed.

[snyprrr]

snyprrr to the rescue!
I'm a convert. I hear from some reviewers that their leader Peter Cropper, has intonation problems galore, maybe owing to his infectious let's-go-for-it attitude. I can hear in spots where there are some 'questionable' moments, but, I call them 'questionable', so they are not outright poo-poos.

I swear by them in Haydn Opp.20/33. Op.33 is just sooo perky as to be the happiest music I've ever heard. They do stuff in Op.20 that you won't hear anywhere else. I also have their Op.55, which is fine, but, on No.1 I do hear the violin careening (it is quite a violin workout in the 1st mvmt). The Amazon reviewer particularly did NOT like Op.54.

Half way through their Haydn survey, they changed album covers, from those garish paintings, to pics of the band playing. I hear that their approach got a little more rabid in these later recordings. Ask Gurn about Op.50. I heard their Op.77 was a little bit too much.

Whatever they do in Haydn, however, is absolutely soaked in thoughtfulness and daring do. They have the fastest Finales,... even faster than the Buchberger! (that's fast!) Seriously, I could go on and on about the little things. Everyone knows they are the only group out there that holds the 'note of destiny' the longest in the first mvmt of Op.20/5 (f minor,... that ringing high note, a la Spinal Tap!!).

As far as Haydn, Opp.20/33 are a MUST. I am considering their Op.76. The newer, less known recordings (with the band pics on cover) include, Op.50, Opp. 42/77/103, and Opp.71-74.



I have yet to hear their LvB, but, of course, it's on the radar. Can we have a blow by blow between the two cycles?? I hear the newer 132 is pretty awesome. I don't know how much love they get here on GMG, as per their LvB, though. Let's see.



I also have their Tippett 4/Britten 3 recording, which is all one could ask for. I've been kvetching for that 25Year cd, with Hugh Wood, Barber, Wiren, and Boris Tchaikovsky (what an awesome lineup!).

Oh, and that Decca/Tippett cd of 1-3. GREAT!



I am a little wary of their Janacek. There is so much funky stuff in there that I wonder if they won't overdo it. Anyone?



Another famous cd by them is the Dvorak/Martinu Piano Quintets. Haven't heard it, but it's always been on the radar. They had a series called the 'Bohemians', but I forget what else was in there.

I am not at all sure about their Bartok, though. Anyone? Somehow, their name NEVER comes up in this light.



They never did the 2nd Viennese School.

ahhh,...what else did they do?



Yes, I loves me some Lindsay SQ. And their cds are pretty cheap these days, for the curious.

[david-jw]

I very much agree that their LvB Op132 (original 1980's) is outstanding.

They are out of fashion now, perhaps moreso abroad than here in England.

I wouldnt be without their LvB late quartets cycle from the 1980's that won the Grammaphone award, which, whilst ragged in places are so deeply felt.

I sort of put them in the Talich/Vegh camp, but not as well played as those two.

They have a very dark, slightly rough timbre to their sound.

Often a movement of a late string quartet will come up on shuffle and I will be really enjoying it and am surprised when I check and its the lindsays.

[George]

I just listened to their String Quintet by Schubert yesterday. Outside that and the rest of their ASV Schubert recordings, I haven't heard anything. I do enjoy their Schubert. Great sound, too.

[snyprrr]

, whilst ragged in places are so deeply felt.

Any particulars on where this raggedness might occur? I want to keep my virginal image of the Lindsays intact!

[snyprrr]

And I'll still put Haydn Opp.20/33 on the Highest Recommendation List.

[Sergeant Rock]

Any particulars on where this raggedness might occur? I want to keep my virginal image of the Lindsays intact!

One moment is at the start of the Allegro in op.127. Cropper hits a painfully wrong note at the 55 second mark. I'm surprised they didn't redo it.

Sarge

[Mandryka]

One moment is at the start of the Allegro in op.127. Cropper hits a painfully wrong note at the 55 second mark. I'm surprised they didn't redo it.

Sarge

I suppose they must think it doesn't matter, that the performance has so many good qualities that who cares abput a wrong note . . .

The sort of attitude Cortot had in piano music maybe.

[david-jw]

Any particulars on where this raggedness might occur? I want to keep my virginal image of the Lindsays intact!

Hi -unfortunatley I do not have sufficent musical knowledge/theory to be able to articulate adaquately where Snyprrr. 

I can only say that sometimes when things get a bit hairy in the writing their intonation and ensemble goes. Sometimes you hear an unpleasant sound which is not a dissonance in the score.

Things like that.

I make no claims for their late LvB being an ultimate set, but there is much to commend them as part of a broad collection.

[PaulThomas]

I live in Sheffield where the Lindsays were based for many many years, and Peter Cropper remains a leading force in the musical community round here.

however....

I agree with those that have issues with Peter Cropper's intonation, while his gung ho attitude is to be commended, and no one could be more enthusiastic in their playing I have attended more than one Peter Cropper recital where the lack of intonation has really soured the evening, in particular one Beethoven Sonata recital that left me completely cold.

Unfortunately I arrived just after the Lindsay's split up, so I have never heard them live, but from recordings I have discerned the same issues as other people have mentioned with ensemble, but you can always pick up a Quartetto Italiano recording if you demand perfection in such things!

They had a massive following round here in Sheffield though, I believe that they are probably one of those quartets that you have to hear live, although obviously you cant do that anymore...

Paul

[Mandryka]

What is interesting to me is that some people can't enjoy their music making because of intonation and ensemble problems. And other people seem to be able to get through that, and enjoy their music making despite the intonation and ensemble problems.

I can understand the first view a bit. I suppose violin is a bit like voice -- you know, it's a personal thing whether you like the timbre of someone's voice. Some people want their fiddlers to wear silk underpants. They prefer Perlman to Szigeti or Hubermann.

And some people want really tight ensemble, especially in a recording. I can understand that. Even though you may miss out on some pretty fantastic recordings (like the Capet's Ravel Quartet)

In the face of music making as impassioned and as intelligent as that Haydn Op 78/5 I mentioned in the OP, to reject them because of the sound they make, or because of technical problems, seems unfortunate.

[Scarpia]

What is interesting to me is that some people can't enjoy their music making because of intonation and ensemble problems. And other people seem to be able to get through that, and enjoy their music making despite the intonation and ensemble problems.

I am having trouble here.  They are a great string quartet, except for bad intonation and ensemble.  What, exactly, is good about them?

[prémont]

What is interesting to me is that some people can't enjoy their music making because of intonation and ensemble problems. And other people seem to be able to get through that, and enjoy their music making despite the intonation and ensemble problems.

In the case of Cropper I think the intonation problems are minor problems which do not disturb the message. Some other quartets had similar problems (Vegh Qt. , Amadeus Qt.), but if you are a blind perfectionist and reject them, you will miss some great musical experiences. That said, I prefer pure intonation, but not at any cost.

[snyprrr]

One moment is at the start of the Allegro in op.127. Cropper hits a painfully wrong note at the 55 second mark. I'm surprised they didn't redo it.

Sarge

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. Already the words "painfully wrong" are 50 feet tall,... I don't want to know. Happy place, happy place . Honestly, I can feel the lump in my throat. I wonder how much pain that note has caused? ooo,...shivers.

This is terrifying! Anything else?

[val]

The Lindsay String Quartet recorded in my opinion the best versions of Haydn's six Quartets opus 33, the 3 Quartets opus 55 and, above all, an extraordinary version of the 3 Quartets opus 54. The slow movement of the opus 54/2 never sound like this, even with the Amadeus.

I also love their version of Beethoven's three Quartets opus 59, Weber's Clarinet Quintet with Janet Hilton and Tippett's Quartets 1, 2 & 3.

On the other hand, I never liked their version of Schubert Quartets.

[Sergeant Rock]

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. Already the words "painfully wrong" are 50 feet tall,... I don't want to know. Happy place, happy place . Honestly, I can feel the lump in my throat. I wonder how much pain that note has caused? ooo,...shivers.

This is terrifying! Anything else?

Nothing that leaps out at me but then I have very few recordings by the Lindsay: the Tippett quartets 1-3, the box of op.59, single discs with op.127 and 131, and Death and the Maiden. Mandryka is so high on 76/5 I thought I'd give that a chance; ordered it along with two others discs from Amazon UK: the complete the op.76 and 77/42/103. Only 17 Euro total so I'm not risking much 

About how much pain that wrong note has caused: it does bother me a lot: I don't often listen to that disc. On the other hand, I recall a discussion in the Gramophone forum with a Lindsay fanatic who thought it a very minor blemish on a great overall performance.

Sarge

[snyprrr]

Nothing that leaps out at me but then I have very few recordings by the Lindsay: the Tippett quartets 1-3, the box of op.59, single discs with op.127 and 131, and Death and the Maiden. Mandryka is so high on 76/5 I thought I'd give that a chance; ordered it along with two others discs from Amazon UK: the complete the op.76 and 77/42/103. Only 17 Euro total so I'm not risking much 

About how much pain that wrong note has caused: it does bother me a lot: I don't often listen to that disc. On the other hand, I recall a discussion in the Gramophone forum with a Lindsay fanatic who thought it a very minor blemish on a great overall performance.

Sarge

Definitely let us know the Op.76,... I was thinking of that one too (or?,... Tackacs,... or Eder?,...or Buchberger ).

Was the Lindsay fanatic's name Walter Mitty?



Haha, everyone's got the Tippett, though! No.2, No.2, No.2!!!

The Lindsay String Quartet recorded in my opinion the best versions of Haydn's six Quartets opus 33, the 3 Quartets opus 55 and, above all, an extraordinary version of the 3 Quartets opus 54. The slow movement of the opus 54/2 never sound like this, even with the Amadeus.

I also love their version of Beethoven's three Quartets opus 59, Weber's Clarinet Quintet with Janet Hilton and Tippett's Quartets 1, 2 & 3.

On the other hand, I never liked their version of Schubert Quartets.

Ah, verification on Op.33! Great!



Op.54 is the one Amazon review that gets the worst review, and here you are saying it's awesome. Hmm, hm, hmmm,... what to do? what to do? The review says Cropper is all over the map on this one,... but, it could just be a playa hayta.



oh, I'm feeling a bit flustered with all the Lindsaymania!

[david-jw]

Its interesting that their Op 127 has come up- wrong note and all. The Op 127 is one of their strongest performances in the late set, imo Snyprrr.

Its a performance that brings out the "lateness" of the 127, and so relates it to the other last quartets, something many performers do not do, and it can often sound too "middle period" for my liking.

Its a very grave and serious performance of the 127.

[Sergeant Rock]

Was the Lindsay fanatic's name Walter Mitty?

No, it was david-jw, I believe   


Sarge

[david-jw]