Author Topic: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?  (Read 7099 times)

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Offline Sandra

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2011, 04:08:18 AM »
Not to mention that Stalin had a dim view of the buildings where organs usually are located.....

Not only Stalin. Shostakovich himself had such views. He was an atheist.
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karlhenning

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2011, 04:26:59 AM »
Not only Stalin. Shostakovich himself had such views. He was an atheist.

I think you're both flogging a strawman.  In Russia, there are no organs in the churches; reflect a while on the nature of sacred music in Russia, and you will know why.  So the fact that Shostakovich did not write organ music probably has nothing to do with dim views of churches, or of religion, has nothing at all do with the question of his atheism, but is simply quite a practical matter that he did not know organists, nor was an organist himself.

cilgwyn

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2011, 10:40:40 AM »
Ahem! I think there is one kind of organ they have in Russian orthodox churches,unless there's something wrong with them,but I won't say what it is in case I get moderated!
On second thoughts,I don't want to think about it. This is a respectable forum,after all.

Scarpia

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2011, 11:01:19 AM »
I think you're both flogging a strawman.  In Russia, there are no organs in the churches; reflect a while on the nature of sacred music in Russia, and you will know why.  So the fact that Shostakovich did not write organ music probably has nothing to do with dim views of churches, or of religion, has nothing at all do with the question of his atheism, but is simply quite a practical matter that he did not know organists, nor was an organist himself.

I think you may be overgeneralizing.  A bit of google research seems to indicate that organ music was banned by the Russian Orthodox church, but that there were organs in other churches in Russia (two commissioned by Peter the Great) and many secular venues. 

In any case, I see nothing controversial in a lack of organ music from Shosty, there are lots of composers who did write much of anything for organ.

eyeresist

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2011, 04:51:35 PM »
No. I don't even know that about you. Simply mocking the thread starter.

Oh - the thread title. Ohhhhh.
 

DavidW

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2011, 05:10:08 PM »
I say Shosty as well, it's about 1 second faster than writing Shostakovich, and more fun than writing DSCH! ;D

Edit: what's really fun is dropping words. ;D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 05:38:59 PM by mozartfan »

Offline Gurn Blanston

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2011, 05:14:23 PM »
I say Shosty as well, it's about 1 second faster than writing Shostakovich, and more than writing DSCH! ;D

Hmmm. It is so... irreverent! And no tin the iconoclastic sense, either. You bad! :)

Oh - the thread title. Ohhhhh.
 

Yes, exactly. I really didn't think of it in any other way. When this thread was first resurrected that was my first thought; "damn, that bloody 'Shosty' thread is back to plague me!". :)

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cilgwyn

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2011, 02:59:53 AM »
I don't recall anyone over at the Havergal Brian calling him 'Bri!',or 'Havy!',although HB is in frequent use.
What about 'Arnie' for Arnold Bax? ("He'll be back!")
Show some respect!
If I was a composer the fact that they don't have ukulele's in churches wouldn't stop me composing ukulele concerto's.

karlhenning

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Re: Did Shosty Baby-kins Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2011, 04:02:05 AM »
I think you may be overgeneralizing.  A bit of google research seems to indicate that organ music was banned by the Russian Orthodox church, but that there were organs in other churches in Russia (two commissioned by Peter the Great) and many secular venues.

Generalizing, certainly, but not particularly overgeneralizing.  Even in Shostakovich's day, there were not a great many non-Orthodox churches in St Petersburg (and — because of Peter the Great's westernizing enthusiasms, as you note — there were more in Petersburg than, well, anywhere else in Russa) . . .

— There is a lovely historical Islamic Center in Petersburg, though, a testament to the fact that in many lands which once lay 'neath the Czar's sway, Islam was the dominant religion. —

. . . that comparative paucity of non-Orthodox churches, together with Communist oppression of religion (and recall, too, that after a certain point Shostakovich was no longer in his native Petersburg, but was moved to Moscow — he is, as you know, buried at the Novodevichy Monastery — though, to be sure, he moved to Moscow some time before burial became necessary), there was no particular occasion for Shostakovich to compose for the organ, without moving tendentiously to the "Shostakovich didn't write for the organ, because he was atheist" red herring.

That there are organs in a a few secular venues does not necessarily signify.  While living in Petersburg, I attended musical performances in a number of venues which presumably had an organ for concert use.  The instruments were, in a word, in disuse.

karlhenning

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2011, 04:02:51 AM »
If I was a composer the fact that they don't have ukulele's in churches wouldn't stop me composing ukulele concerto's.

Well, that is special. Thanks for sharing!

Offline Florestan

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2011, 04:05:16 AM »
I think you may be overgeneralizing.  A bit of google research seems to indicate that organ music was banned by the Russian Orthodox church,

This seems to imply that church  organ music was somehow actually performed before the Russian Orthodox Church banned it --- not true. Organ music in churches is a strictly Roman Catholic thing (perpetuated in the mainstream Protestant churches as well): the Orthodox Church never had it so there was nothing to ban.
"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one-half that you see." - Edgar Allan Poe

karlhenning

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2011, 04:09:22 AM »
And the sound of the choirs is so rich, there hasn't been the need for organ . . . .

Offline DaveF

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2011, 12:24:29 PM »
... so I think we can safely say that Shozza never wrote anything for organ.

Stravinsky, of course, was another organ-shy modern Russian - I believe the Canticum Sacrum is the only place he uses it.  "The monster never breathes" he is reported to have said.  Clearly he'd never heard some of the gasping, wheezy, asthmatic instruments in British churches, some of which seem to do nothing but breathe.

DF
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karlhenning

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2011, 03:22:03 PM »
... so I think we can safely say that Shozza never wrote anything for organ.

Did we discover who did the organ reduction of the Passacaglia intermezzo from Katerina Izmailova?

Scarpia

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2011, 04:33:39 PM »
Oddly in Janacek's Taras Bulba, based on the story by Gogol, the main characters experience in a Church is represented by a passage for organ.  He should have known better, clearly. 

karlhenning

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2011, 02:51:15 AM »
Oh, was Janáček Russian? The things I find out here! ; )

Scarpia

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2011, 06:12:18 AM »
Oh, was Janáček Russian? The things I find out here! ; )

He wasn't Russian, but the character in his tone poem was.  The story would have taken place in Russia or the Ukraine.


Offline Florestan

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Re: Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2011, 07:01:15 AM »
He wasn't Russian, but the character in his tone poem was.  The story would have taken place in Russia or the Ukraine.

Ukraine and Poland, actually. What specific characters do you refer to?
"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one-half that you see." - Edgar Allan Poe