Did Shosty Write Anything For Organ?

Started by bvy, June 01, 2008, 05:55:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sandra

Quote from: The new erato on June 01, 2008, 11:56:07 PM
Not to mention that Stalin had a dim view of the buildings where organs usually are located.....

Not only Stalin. Shostakovich himself had such views. He was an atheist.
"Pay no attention to what the critics say... Remember, a statue has never been set up in honor of a critic!" - J. Sibelius

karlhenning

Quote from: Sandra on May 26, 2011, 05:08:18 AM
Not only Stalin. Shostakovich himself had such views. He was an atheist.

I think you're both flogging a strawman.  In Russia, there are no organs in the churches; reflect a while on the nature of sacred music in Russia, and you will know why.  So the fact that Shostakovich did not write organ music probably has nothing to do with dim views of churches, or of religion, has nothing at all do with the question of his atheism, but is simply quite a practical matter that he did not know organists, nor was an organist himself.

cilgwyn

Ahem! I think there is one kind of organ they have in Russian orthodox churches,unless there's something wrong with them,but I won't say what it is in case I get moderated!
On second thoughts,I don't want to think about it. This is a respectable forum,after all.

Scarpia

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 26, 2011, 05:26:59 AM
I think you're both flogging a strawman.  In Russia, there are no organs in the churches; reflect a while on the nature of sacred music in Russia, and you will know why.  So the fact that Shostakovich did not write organ music probably has nothing to do with dim views of churches, or of religion, has nothing at all do with the question of his atheism, but is simply quite a practical matter that he did not know organists, nor was an organist himself.

I think you may be overgeneralizing.  A bit of google research seems to indicate that organ music was banned by the Russian Orthodox church, but that there were organs in other churches in Russia (two commissioned by Peter the Great) and many secular venues. 

In any case, I see nothing controversial in a lack of organ music from Shosty, there are lots of composers who did write much of anything for organ.

eyeresist

Quote from: Gurnatron5500 on May 26, 2011, 04:11:49 AM
No. I don't even know that about you. Simply mocking the thread starter.

Oh - the thread title. Ohhhhh.

DavidW

#25
I say Shosty as well, it's about 1 second faster than writing Shostakovich, and more fun than writing DSCH! ;D

Edit: what's really fun is dropping words. ;D

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: mozartfan on May 26, 2011, 06:10:08 PM
I say Shosty as well, it's about 1 second faster than writing Shostakovich, and more than writing DSCH! ;D

Hmmm. It is so... irreverent! And no tin the iconoclastic sense, either. You bad! :)

Quote from: eyeresist on May 26, 2011, 05:51:35 PM
Oh - the thread title. Ohhhhh.


Yes, exactly. I really didn't think of it in any other way. When this thread was first resurrected that was my first thought; "damn, that bloody 'Shosty' thread is back to plague me!". :)

8)



----------------
Now playing:
The Hanover Band / Goodman - Hob 01 004 Symphony in D 3rd mvmt - Finale: Tempo di Menuetto
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

cilgwyn

I don't recall anyone over at the Havergal Brian calling him 'Bri!',or 'Havy!',although HB is in frequent use.
What about 'Arnie' for Arnold Bax? ("He'll be back!")
Show some respect!
If I was a composer the fact that they don't have ukulele's in churches wouldn't stop me composing ukulele concerto's.

karlhenning

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 26, 2011, 12:01:19 PM
I think you may be overgeneralizing.  A bit of google research seems to indicate that organ music was banned by the Russian Orthodox church, but that there were organs in other churches in Russia (two commissioned by Peter the Great) and many secular venues.

Generalizing, certainly, but not particularly overgeneralizing.  Even in Shostakovich's day, there were not a great many non-Orthodox churches in St Petersburg (and — because of Peter the Great's westernizing enthusiasms, as you note — there were more in Petersburg than, well, anywhere else in Russa) . . .

— There is a lovely historical Islamic Center in Petersburg, though, a testament to the fact that in many lands which once lay 'neath the Czar's sway, Islam was the dominant religion. —

. . . that comparative paucity of non-Orthodox churches, together with Communist oppression of religion (and recall, too, that after a certain point Shostakovich was no longer in his native Petersburg, but was moved to Moscow — he is, as you know, buried at the Novodevichy Monastery — though, to be sure, he moved to Moscow some time before burial became necessary), there was no particular occasion for Shostakovich to compose for the organ, without moving tendentiously to the "Shostakovich didn't write for the organ, because he was atheist" red herring.

That there are organs in a a few secular venues does not necessarily signify.  While living in Petersburg, I attended musical performances in a number of venues which presumably had an organ for concert use.  The instruments were, in a word, in disuse.

karlhenning

Quote from: cilgwyn on May 27, 2011, 03:59:53 AM
If I was a composer the fact that they don't have ukulele's in churches wouldn't stop me composing ukulele concerto's.

Well, that is special. Thanks for sharing!

Florestan

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 26, 2011, 12:01:19 PM
I think you may be overgeneralizing.  A bit of google research seems to indicate that organ music was banned by the Russian Orthodox church,

This seems to imply that church  organ music was somehow actually performed before the Russian Orthodox Church banned it --- not true. Organ music in churches is a strictly Roman Catholic thing (perpetuated in the mainstream Protestant churches as well): the Orthodox Church never had it so there was nothing to ban.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

karlhenning

And the sound of the choirs is so rich, there hasn't been the need for organ . . . .

DaveF

... so I think we can safely say that Shozza never wrote anything for organ.

Stravinsky, of course, was another organ-shy modern Russian - I believe the Canticum Sacrum is the only place he uses it.  "The monster never breathes" he is reported to have said.  Clearly he'd never heard some of the gasping, wheezy, asthmatic instruments in British churches, some of which seem to do nothing but breathe.

DF
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

karlhenning

Quote from: DaveF on May 28, 2011, 01:24:29 PM
... so I think we can safely say that Shozza never wrote anything for organ.

Did we discover who did the organ reduction of the Passacaglia intermezzo from Katerina Izmailova?

Scarpia

Oddly in Janacek's Taras Bulba, based on the story by Gogol, the main characters experience in a Church is represented by a passage for organ.  He should have known better, clearly. 

karlhenning

Oh, was Janáček Russian? The things I find out here! ; )

Scarpia

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 29, 2011, 03:51:15 AM
Oh, was Janáček Russian? The things I find out here! ; )

He wasn't Russian, but the character in his tone poem was.  The story would have taken place in Russia or the Ukraine.


Florestan

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 29, 2011, 07:12:18 AM
He wasn't Russian, but the character in his tone poem was.  The story would have taken place in Russia or the Ukraine.

Ukraine and Poland, actually. What specific characters do you refer to?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini