Naxos Pricing on Amazon?

[haziz]

What is it with Naxos' pricing on Amazon in the US? I remember it as a budget label selling for US $6 to 7, but now they seem to be mostly selling for $10. I do like their selection particularly with obscure composers and works but this is now weird. With the recent collapse in prices for the "majors" I am often finding that the prices for Universal DG/Decca and of Sony to be often significantly cheaper than the former budget label and not just for their budget releases and box sets. I realize that the entire recording industry is in turmoil with the advent of digital downloads and widespread piracy, but would have expected them to maintain their relative prices compared to each other.

OT: Boy, do I miss the brick and mortar Tower records stores.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Hany.

[Mirror Image]

What is it with Naxos' pricing on Amazon in the US? I remember it as a budget label selling for US $6 to 7, but now they seem to be mostly selling for $10. I do like their selection particularly with obscure composers and works but this is now weird. With the recent collapse in prices for the "majors" I am often finding that the prices for Universal DG/Decca and of Sony to be often significantly cheaper than the former budget label and not just for their budget releases and box sets. I realize that the entire recording industry is in turmoil with the advent of digital downloads and widespread piracy, but would have expected them to maintain their relative prices compared to each other.

OT: Boy, do I miss the brick and mortar Tower records stores.

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Hany.

Very seldom do I buy directly from Amazon. I buy from an Amazon Marketplace seller. For Naxos, Chandos, Warner Classics, and Ondine I go with the seller Classical Music Superstore, which is a US distributor for Naxos. They usually have the cheapest prices, but, I too, have noticed increases in their prices. I'm not sure why this is the case, but perhaps these companies know they have the online market cornered now and also know that brick-and-mortar stores aren't that reliable anymore to sell their products, so they can slowly increase prices because they know customers can't get the recording anywhere else.

[Gurn Blanston]

No, Naxos has raised it's Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) to $10. Since Amazon bases its pricing on MSRP, that's what they sell for.

Their price has slowly crept up over the years, to keep pace with the market, I would suppose. When I started collecting, they were $5.99, but could be had virtually anywhere for 3.99 to 4.99. You can still shop around online and get them for that price. I do it all the time!




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Now playing:
Staatskapelle Dresden / Davis  Claudio Arrau - LvB Concerto #4 in G for Piano Op 58 Arrau 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

[Brian]

No, Naxos has raised it's Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) to $10. Since Amazon bases its pricing on MSRP, that's what they sell for.

Naxos' explanation for this, incidentally, is threefold:
- inflation. According to an online inflation calculator, $5.99 in the early 1990s is the same as $8.70 in 2010.
- increase in artistic quality
- they simply do not profit from their CDs. I read in one Klaus Heymann interview that the Alsop Bernstein Mass sold 20,000 copies and that didn't even make up the pay for the performers and publisher. They turn profits from distributing other labels and selling streaming music services like the music library but consider all their CDs "prestige projects."

[mc ukrneal]

I posted on this some months ago. I understand why prices have increased, but I still don't understand Amazon pricing

This one is $7.06:


These three are part of a series and they are all different. You'd think the most recent would be most expensive, but it is not. They are $9.46 (vol 1), $10.60 (vol 2), and $9.06 (vol 3). Most recent is actually LEAST expensive!


This one is $8.75


This one is $10.36 (while volume 8 is $10.76, volume 7 is $11.02 and volume 6 is $9.84 - volume 1 is $9.84 too, while volume 4 is $8.05, volume 3 is $8.03 and volume 5 is $9.41):


Yet another price point at $11.03:


This one is $10.62


The Locatelli series is $9.01 for volume 1 and $11.18 for volume 2!


And one at $9.49:


And here is one at $10.63:


There are appears to be no rhyme or reason to the pricing. Of just those I listed, we see 18 different price points (7.06, 8.03, 8.05, 8.75, 9.01, 9.06, 9.41, 9.46, 9.49, 9.84, 10.36, 10.60, 10.62, 10.63 10.76, 11.02, 11.03, and 11.18). And there are many more than just these 18!! Crazy stuff...

[Brian]

I know a lot of web retailers use computer algorithms which calculate demand, rival sellers, and all sorts of stuff to automatically generate a price. It's a bit like airline tickets. Here's a great blog entry about how a computer program led an Amazon Marketplace vendor to sell a biology textbook for $23,698,655.93.

[mc ukrneal]

I know a lot of web retailers use computer algorithms which calculate demand, rival sellers, and all sorts of stuff to automatically generate a price. It's a bit like airline tickets. Here's a great blog entry about how a computer program led an Amazon Marketplace vendor to sell a biology textbook for $23,698,655.93.

That could explain it, but still does not really explain why they have prices of 11.02, 11.03, 11.04 in a row like that. You would think they would just make these all the same price, wouldn't you?

[Brian]

That could explain it, but still does not really explain why they have prices of 11.02, 11.03, 11.04 in a row like that. You would think they would just make these all the same price, wouldn't you?

I can only assume that whatever computer algorithm they use is spitting out those random numbers (or rounding up from 11.025893 or something) and nobody at Amazon actually exercises any control over what prices are given for what products.

[Gurn Blanston]

That could explain it, but still does not really explain why they have prices of 11.02, 11.03, 11.04 in a row like that. You would think they would just make these all the same price, wouldn't you?

To expand on Brian's point for a moment, last week I put several items in my shopping cart but didn't pull the trigger yet. This opens an avenue for a new service to kick in. Every day I would look at the cart (to see if any items had become unavailable) and at the top of the page there would be a list that would say, like, notice of changes. And it would list changes in item price since the previous day. Out of 8 items in there, not a single day went by without at least 3 of them (one day it was 5!) changing price, usually up, sometimes down. Changes ranged from a few cents to $8 for one item! And these were mostly Marketplace items so the vendor didn't change, just the price. The Amazon priced items didn't change in that time.

So it is a pretty fluid situation price wise. Strange to me, but what do I know? 

[Brahmsian]

Amazon Canada still has all the Naxos CDs listed as $7.99 CDN.   Even at the local bookstore, they are still $9.99

*Ssshhh, please don't tell them* 

[Grazioso]

To expand on Brian's point for a moment, last week I put several items in my shopping cart but didn't pull the trigger yet. This opens an avenue for a new service to kick in. Every day I would look at the cart (to see if any items had become unavailable) and at the top of the page there would be a list that would say, like, notice of changes. And it would list changes in item price since the previous day. Out of 8 items in there, not a single day went by without at least 3 of them (one day it was 5!) changing price, usually up, sometimes down. Changes ranged from a few cents to $8 for one item! And these were mostly Marketplace items so the vendor didn't change, just the price. The Amazon priced items didn't change in that time.

So it is a pretty fluid situation price wise. Strange to me, but what do I know? 

In the good old days, if you bought something from Amazon and the price lowered within 30 (?) days, they'd refund the difference if you brought it to their attention.

[DavidW]

As Brian said, it's just inflation.  It's hard for me to come to terms with it... my mind is fixed on 90s value for currency and I tend to think that somethings are expensive or overpriced when they are actually bargains.  But so many things are cheap now that bargain priced naxos cds at $10 (and yes that is bargain price) is not seen as a bargain by many.

When the school cafeteria raised their prices recently on meals from $5 to $6.50 I immediately thought overpriced ripoff! until I caught myself thinking like it was the wrong decade... why that's the same price as a fast food meal but it's higher quality food.

[71 dB]

Amazon.co.uk is selling J.S.Bach - Organ Chorales From the Leipzig Manuscript 1 - Rübsam - Naxos 8.550901 for £14.80

I believe at some point the price was something like £17 so it has come down...

Now, that's budget price for you! 

[Bulldog]

I rarely buy anything on Amazon, but I know the current price of a new Naxos disc on ArkivMusic is consistently at $9.99.  That price is still much less than prices for new discs from the premium labels.

Naxos prices were about $5.99 when I first started collecting cd's in the late 1980's, so I'm not in any distress about their current pricing.
Beyond that, price is just one consideration in my acquisition decision-making.

[Brian]

I rarely buy anything on Amazon, but I know the current price of a new Naxos disc on ArkivMusic is consistently at $9.99.  That price is still much less than prices for new discs from the premium labels.

Indeed; premium label prices have gone from $17-18 to $21-24.

[Lethevich]

Indeed; premium label prices have gone from $17-18 to $21-24.

Weird how Hyperion and Chandos seem to have gone the other way around - some US forumites used to consider them too expensive, but now they sell for as low as $15 on Amazon.

[Brian]

That's true, hadn't thought of that. Mostly I'm worried about getting myself a good salaried job and some paychecks so I can afford $21 a disc for the truckload of Timpani CDs I really, really want to own. 

[Bulldog]

Weird how Hyperion and Chandos seem to have gone the other way around - some US forumites used to consider them too expensive, but now they sell for as low as $15 on Amazon.

Overall, I find that Hyperion and Chandos prices have risen as well.  Anyways, in the long run it makes little difference whether a disc is priced at $16 or $20.  If it's a great disc, the rewards easily supercede the price.  If it sucks, you waste a few bucks.

[kishnevi]

That could explain it, but still does not really explain why they have prices of 11.02, 11.03, 11.04 in a row like that. You would think they would just make these all the same price, wouldn't you?

I would assume they didn't give their algorithm a final step to round prices up or down to the nearest x.x9. 

Ideally, they would be basing pricing on how many units of each item they have in stock and how sales have been trending.  A small inventory of a fast selling item will be priced higher;  a large inventory of a slow selling item will be priced lower; and so forth.  Competitor's pricing, the cost of the item to the vendor, etc. would all be factored in, as mentioned already.

At least, that's how a human in retail tries to work it.   If that's how Amazon approximately works it,  you'll probably find a correlation to selling rank and price--the higher the rank, the higher the price (as a very general trend).  Locatelli Vol II may be selling better than Vol I, and Sarasate Vol. III worse than Sarasate Vol. I  (or the inventory of Sarasate Vol. III may be bigger).  Although one woujld assume that the folks who buy Locatelli I would also be buying Locatelli II.

At any rate, thank you for reminding me that I need to order those two Sarasate CDs--I only have the first in the series.

[hafod]

Amazon pricing has always struck me as a black art and Naxos pricing one of the blackest altho' it can have the occasional bright spot. For example, on Amazon Uk currently they have:

Roussel: The Complete Symphonies and Other Orchestral Works RSNO/Denève - 4cds £9.99

Brian: Gothic Symphony - 2cds £6.97

Dowland: Complete Lute Music Nigel North - 4cds £9.99

More bizarre is when the same recording is listed twice at widely differing prices. For example the Brilliant Classics 3cd box of Borodin's complete chamber music:

£7.99 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Borodin-Complete-Chamber-Music-Set/dp/B001SNXU7S/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I33AHI7FHBXTUK&colid=17UIZOGAPPA6

£23.96 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Chamber-Music-Borodin/dp/B0033BJSFG/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1C7ZSXSN4N6G6&colid=17UIZOGAPPA6

Another example is the Inbal Mahler Syphonies on the same label at £76.22 and £43.82.