Six undeservedly neglected composers.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I am uploading another Rangström piece to the same folder, which I rate as highly as the First Symphony - the symphonic poem Dityramb. The ending is granite, and rather Brianic.

[eyeresist]

Rangström's First Symphony is terrific (under Segerstam especially). All the others (in my opinion) are small beer.

As I posted in the current listening thread, I was very disappointed in the cycle recorded under Jurowski. His 1st is good, but as the cycle goes on he becomes progressively less committed. There is absolutely nothing songful in his recording of the Song under the Stars (Symphony no. 3) nor in the "cantabile" movement of the 4th symphony, for instance. This is the kind of thing I was referring to in my previous post about unhelpful recordings of rare repertoire - a competent (and admittedly spectacular-sounding) recording can lead to the dismissal of a work, where an outright bad recording can paradoxically leave you intrigued and wanting to hear more.

I've emailed EMI and Brilliant suggesting they reissue the alternate recordings as a set (for each symphony, there is exactly one other recording besides Jurowski - all of them out of print).

THAT HUGE THUMP near the beginning of Strauss's 'Tod und Verklarung' (at least on the Telarc cd recording) seemed bad enough. I think perhaps they close miked it,on purpose? What a whack. My mum shot out of her seat.
Not to mention that percussion (drums?) at the end of the scherzo in the Gothic. You know just at the start of that wild storm. I could see her head moving around. 'I wondered what it was?' she said.
You could kill someone!

You should avoid Mahler's 10th, then.

[Mirror Image]

I'm not sure if I mentioned earlier or if he's been mentioned yet, but I think Josef Suk is still neglected. There are recordings of his music available, but his music still isn't widely performed as it should be.

[mc ukrneal]

As I posted in the current listening thread, I was very disappointed in the cycle recorded under Jurowski. His 1st is good, but as the cycle goes on he becomes progressively less committed. There is absolutely nothing songful in his recording of the Song under the Stars (Symphony no. 3) nor in the "cantabile" movement of the 4th symphony, for instance. This is the kind of thing I was referring to in my previous post about unhelpful recordings of rare repertoire - a competent (and admittedly spectacular-sounding) recording can lead to the dismissal of a work, where an outright bad recording can paradoxically leave you intrigued and wanting to hear more.

Hmmm. I am having trouble following some of your comments, but let's start with the easier part. First, I disagree that the CPO set becomes less committed as they go on. I think they are committed throughout (it is the one thing that I actually feel strongly about - they take the music by the horns in my opinion), though I would agree they can be a little rough around the edges at times (which oddly seems to be a plus at times as it seems to suit the music).

The third symphony  - in what way is it not songful (and I am not sure we share the same understanding of what you mean by that)? Perhaps you have a different expectation of how the music should sound? When I listen, it seems to me...hmm, what's the best word here...manic maybe? Fantastical (does have certain hints of the Sorcerer's Apprentice about it)?  It is bombastic and loud (crass even) with some incredibly lyrical moments thrown in. In some ways, Rangstrom is at his most unique here, and I think that comes out in the CPO recording. Personally, I think the 3rd as played here is fantastic - the build ups are incredible, the sound world a bit unique, and I get great pleasure from the music. SO we can disagree over the merits of the recording, and I see no problem with that.

Your last sentence/thought doesn't make sense to me. I cannot think of a case where a bad recording has ever led me to wanting to hear more. If a recording is bad, I will, at best, think about a different recording at some point in the future (but most likely will just dismiss it). So even if we accept your view of the music and this recording, I don't see how this does a dis-service to the music. A mediocre recording should still whet the appetite to hear more (as it still gives an idea of what could have been).

[springrite]

I'm not sure if I mentioned earlier or if he's been mentioned yet, but I think Josef Suk is still neglected. There are recordings of his music available, but his music still isn't widely performed as it should be.

Truth be told, I first purchased about half a dozen Supraphon CDs of Suk's music because, as a young man, I was drawn to it by the sexy paintings on the covers, mostly of naked women. Eventually, the music took over.

[eyeresist]

Your last sentence/thought doesn't make sense to me. I cannot think of a case where a bad recording has ever led me to wanting to hear more. If a recording is bad, I will, at best, think about a different recording at some point in the future (but most likely will just dismiss it). So even if we accept your view of the music and this recording, I don't see how this does a dis-service to the music. A mediocre recording should still whet the appetite to hear more (as it still gives an idea of what could have been).

Well, I mean a recording that gives the impression that it has done justice to the music, and thus may serve for the casual listener to fairly assess the piece, when this is in fact not the case. Again, my real-world example is the Kalinnikov symphony. If I had heard the Kuchar or Jarvi recording first, I probably would have dismissed it, as others have done (as in the GMG favourite symphonies thread), as a tuneful but obviously trivial work. Only by sheer luck (and cheapskatery!) did I encounter the Friedmann recording first. This experience led me to become distrustful of the virtues of standard recommendations, which can often be more a product of faith than of close listening.

In the case of Rangstrom I was struck by the symphonies seemed to decline remarkably in interest, from the 1st to the 4th. This made me more analytical of the details of his performance, and I became conscious of a lack of sympathy with the music on the part of Jurowski. It is all, ultimately, a question of personal taste, but I hope my skepticism will lead in time to my hearing better - or at least more personally satisfying - performances!

[cilgwyn]

Come to think of it. If the loud 'Thwack!' near the beginning of Strauss's 'Death and transfiguration' did actually kill you,that would be highly appropriate;although maybe not quite what the listener was hoping for!
I shall have try listening to Mahler's tenth symphony again. But maybe not. I find late Mahler so self indulgent and gloomy. After a few minutes of earth shattering doom I'm off down to B&Q to find a nice strong piece of rope to hang myself.
  Regarding Rangstrom. These posts are extremely interesting. For another comparison,what about Vernon Handley's interpretation of Bantock's 'Hebridean Symphony' and that earlier Marco Polo recording? Not exactly great music,but Handley and the RPO transformed the piece. Something of the atmosphere of the music came through in the earlier recording,but only my curiosity about Bantock and other neglected composers led me to buy the Hyperion cd.

[cilgwyn]

Springrite! So Suk beat Electric Ladyland?!!!

[Mirror Image]

Truth be told, I first purchased about half a dozen Supraphon CDs of Suk's music because, as a young man, I was drawn to it by the sexy paintings on the covers, mostly of naked women. Eventually, the music took over.

[Mirror Image]

Come to think of it. If the loud 'Thwack!' near the beginning of Strauss's 'Death and transfiguration' did actually kill you,that would be highly appropriate;although maybe not quite what the listener was hoping for!
I shall have try listening to Mahler's tenth symphony again. But maybe not. I find late Mahler so self indulgent and gloomy. After a few minutes of earth shattering gloom I'm off down to B&Q to find a nice strong piece of rope to hang myself.
  Regarding Rangstrom. These posts are extremely interesting. For another comparison,what about Vernon Handley's interpretation of Bantock's 'Hebridean Symphony' and that earlier Marco Polo recording? Not exactly great music,but Handley and the RPO transformed the piece. Something of the atmosphere of the music came through in the earlier recording,but only my curiosity about Bantock and other neglected composers led me to buy the Hyperion cd.

Kudos for mentioning Bantock. The Handley-led set on Hyperion is worth its weight in gold.

[cilgwyn]

It's worth a couple of gold bricks!

[Mirror Image]

I'll go ahead and mention Bacewicz. I'm sure she's well known and played in Poland, but outside of Poland who has really heard of her today? I really hope Chandos continues their survey of her orchestral music. She's written some ballets that haven't been played that sound really interesting and not to mention several symphonies. All of her VCs have been performed, except for the 6th, which hasn't been published or is lost. Anyway, thought I would add her if she hasn't been mentioned already.

[Rinaldo]

I'll go ahead and mention Bacewicz.

And I'll add Elizabeth Maconchy. Her fantastic SQ's deserve much more recognition.

[Mirror Image]

And I'll add Elizabeth Maconchy. Her fantastic SQ's deserve much more recognition.

Yeah, she's one I want explore as well. I heard she has a strong Bartok influence in her music.

[vandermolen]

Stanley Bate

Richard Arnell

Vitezslav Novak

Nikolai Miaskovsky

Klaus Egge

Hilding Rosenberg

Ronald Lo Presti

Oops that's seven - but never mind as I started the thread 

[Christo]

Yes! Stanley Bate. And also Arnold Cooke, Ruth Gipps, Léon Orthel, Elis Pehkonen - to compensate for your slight disgression with only five names. 

[calyptorhynchus]

Ten years ago I would have contributed a list of six composers to this discussion (but ten years ago forums like this didn't exist!)

Now, with forums like this, access to people's recordings from the radio, various labels doing great work to promote neglected composers &c I'd say that a more useful list would be composers and genres that are overrated and crowd out worthier composers.

Because what is needed is continually to be attracting young people to classical music, as listeners and players, so that the tradition continues. Although, thanks to the Internet, you can find a lot of what you are looking for, you have to want to look. Most contemporary attempts to popularise classical music make the mistake of choosing music that isn't likely to appeal to anyone. Here in Australia we have a government funded classical radio service that repeats the format of the UK Classic FM ( :-( ) (no Radio 3 thank you). Concerts are crammed with the same old schmaltzy repertoire, compared to which grunge is like a joyful melody on a spring day. I expect the situation is similar, if not quite so dumbed-down elsewhere in the world.

So, repertoire and composers to concentrate on when trying popularise classical music:

1. early music & renaissance
2. baroque music except opera
3. classical music
4. carefully selected bits of Romantic music leaving most of it out
5. C20 neoclassical, neo- and post-romantic (carefully chosen)

Repertoire and composers to avoid:

1. Bad opera and bad vocal music generally
2. Most Romantic music, especially Tchaikovsky, Brahms &c
3. Most French music post 1720
4. C20 avant garde and aleatory music

[Brian]

Because what is needed is continually to be attracting young people to classical music, as listeners and players, so that the tradition continues.

As a young person (22) with several young friends who love classical music, I can tell you something quite odd: of the three people whom I personally have helped become serious classical music lovers, two were "converted" by the slow movement of Beethoven's Seventh, and the other by Shostakovich, and then one of the two who were baptised by Beethoven immediately became a Shostakovich addict. More or less every music student at my university was united by an incredible love of Shostakovich. I think the lesson is that the way to draw people in is with music which is tonal and modestly tuneful, but more importantly, music which has gripping emotional immediacy and complexity - and, let's be honest, a lot of loud climaxes and a big orchestra.

A lot of people are drawn in by Bach and the baroque. I think it's a whole different personality type, actually. It really depends on the individual; none of my friends were like that. Well, one or two.

[vandermolen]

Yes! Stanley Bate. And also Arnold Cooke, Ruth Gipps, Léon Orthel, Elis Pehkonen - to compensate for your slight disgression with only five names. 

I have enjoyed discovering Orthel (thanks to your recommendations).  Yes, Ruth Gipps (especially the terrific Symphony No 4) deserved the Dutton Bate/Arnell treatment. 

[starrynight]

If a recording is bad, I will, at best, think about a different recording at some point in the future (but most likely will just dismiss it). So even if we accept your view of the music and this recording, I don't see how this does a dis-service to the music. A mediocre recording should still whet the appetite to hear more (as it still gives an idea of what could have been).

There is so much music to listen to though so many people are not likely to be encouraged to listen to another recording.  Maybe it depends how bad the performance is as well.  If it still sounds like is has interesting musical ideas but they are articulated and phrased badly perhaps someone might try another recording.  And certainly if it's a famous work which someone has heard many good things about maybe they might try another recording too.  But I'm sure that a bad recording could potentially put someone off listening to another version of the work for quite some time, particularly if it is in a style they aren't so used to.

Concerts are crammed with the same old schmaltzy repertoire, compared to which grunge is like a joyful melody on a spring day. I expect the situation is similar, if not quite so dumbed-down elsewhere in the world.

Repertoire and composers to avoid: [when trying popularise classical music:]

2. Most Romantic music, especially Tchaikovsky, Brahms &c

Tchaikovsky is more of a classical romantic, his melody can be quite pure.  Generally newcomers to classical music find his music quite attractive.