Author Topic: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)  (Read 26124 times)

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2014, 01:36:07 PM »
New release:



Thoroughly enjoyable. Maybe not as polished as the version on Chandos but well worth having if you want an inexpensive introduction to this fine and moving work.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2014, 03:19:33 AM »
What's the recording quality like,vandermolen? Less resonant than the Chandos I should imagine?! Less 'spectacular' perhaps,but compensation in the form of a cleaner,more detailed recording? The old Franz Schmidt recording of his third symphony on the Opus label is a case in point. And That's not the only good thing going for it! Rajter's third is now my recording of choice! I keep thinking I must collect the others.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2014, 06:30:50 AM »
What's the recording quality like,vandermolen? Less resonant than the Chandos I should imagine?! Less 'spectacular' perhaps,but compensation in the form of a cleaner,more detailed recording? The old Franz Schmidt recording of his third symphony on the Opus label is a case in point. And That's not the only good thing going for it! Rajter's third is now my recording of choice! I keep thinking I must collect the others.

Basically you've got it right in your suggestion about the recording - certainly less depth and resonance and brighter.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Parsifal

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2016, 07:42:55 PM »
I recently listened to Dohnányi's Concert Piece for Cello and Orchestra (Starker's recording from the late 50's on EMI) and I would say it is the first piece by Dohnányi that has really disappointed me. I don't know if there is a different recording out there that would make a difference.

(If you think you're seeing double it's because early my brain apparently short circuited and I posted this comment on the Enescu thread. I don't know why those two composers are so closely linked in my brain.)

cilgwyn

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2016, 12:35:31 AM »
I bought the Hyperion recording of Dohnanyi's Piano Concertos a few months ago. I think they're great. If you like slightly ott,full blooded late romanticism,sweeping melodies these have got it all! Well,actually,not quite!! They haven't got any tunes as good,or in any way as memorable as Rachmaninov or Tchaikovsky at their best. In fact,I'm not sure if I could hum any of them!! Nevertheless,there's a sweep and heroic,nationalistic fervour to the music making here which is inclined to make me bracket these with some of the best second tier (snotty term as it undoubtedly is) Piano Concertos I've heard. Yes,some decent tunes would have helped;but bathed in an upholstered balm of glittering orchestration like this,and Hyperion's superb,slightly boomy,sound engineering, I'm in no mood to complain. Fun!! :) But perhaps not too often!! How do the Chandos recordings compare,I wonder? And (groaning!) please....please don't tell me they're even better!!

By the way;I just went through the posts here,Vandermolen;and I can't really make out whether you like Dohnanyi's First Symphony,or not? I can understand you having a preference for one of them,for various reasons;but if you like this sort of thing,No 1 sounds pretty good to me (I like it!) Maybe,the coupling doesn't help. The American Rhapsody is interesting,now and again;but it's not one of his best. I notice the Telarc recording has only the Symphony. They are,or were (is the label still going?) well known for their spectacular sound quality. Might this be good

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2016, 05:42:03 AM »
You bring up an interesting point about Dohnanyi, cilgwyn. There aren't many decent melodies in his music (i.e. his PCs and VC), BUT I do like a few of his works. Most notably the Variations on a Nursery Theme and Symphonic Minutes. These pieces are great fun and quite infectious.
“Works of art make rules; rules do not make works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline Brian

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2016, 05:50:39 AM »
There aren't many decent melodies in his music
Listen to the sextet, stat!!!!

I recently listened to Dohnányi's Concert Piece for Cello and Orchestra (Starker's recording from the late 50's on EMI) and I would say it is the first piece by Dohnányi that has really disappointed me. I don't know if there is a different recording out there that would make a difference.

If that's the first piece to disappoint you, may I ask about some favorites? I love the sextet and listen occasionally to the piano quintets, but outside of his chamber music I don't know very much. The Nursery Variations are fun, of course.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2016, 05:55:47 AM »
Listen to the sextet, stat!!!!

I will remedy this soon-ish. :)
“Works of art make rules; rules do not make works of art.” - Claude Debussy

cilgwyn

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2016, 06:10:47 AM »
His orchestration is luxuriously romantic,it almost glitters! There's a feeling of momentum and urgency in his best music,even when the tunes aren't top notch. I like his music,when I'm in the mood for a big,late romantic wallow. Korgold,Respighi and Dohnanyi all fit the bill;and he's less full of himself than Richard Strauss (I like his operas better).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2016, 06:17:20 AM »
His orchestration is luxuriously romantic,it almost glitters! There's a feeling of momentum and urgency in his best music,even when the tunes aren't top notch. I like his music,when I'm in the mood for a big,late romantic wallow. Korgold,Respighi and Dohnanyi all fit the bill;and he's less full of himself than Richard Strauss (I like his operas better).

Richard Strauss is the man! Don't you diss Mr. Hero! ;) ;D But, seriously, I think there are a few composers that have done some remarkable Straussian things, but none can match what the man himself has done in that kind of style IMHO. Strauss really created a unique style for better or for worse. There was a period where I loathed his music, but I've put my preconceived notions to the side and have found myself really in awe of his music.
“Works of art make rules; rules do not make works of art.” - Claude Debussy

cilgwyn

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2016, 07:09:12 AM »
I'm not dissing him,MI! I've just finished spending a load of dosh on some of his operas. A recording of Daphne is still in the post,actually! If you want a wallow,Richard Strauss beats Dohnanyi any day!  Anyway,I think it's the sometimes rather obtrusive ego that I like about him. I think it's fun!! :)  I spent about a week,or two,listening to Der Rosenkavalier,Arabella,Capriccio and Ariadne auf Naxos only recently. Like you I went through a period of loathing! I can see a large pile of alternative recordings of Richard Strauss operas developing,if I'm not too careful! ;D I think,like you,I've got the bug!

cilgwyn

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2016, 07:26:29 AM »
Thanks to you I've got Don Quixote on now! I was listening to Herrmann's recording of The Planets and suddenly I got this Strauss urge,thanks to you! ??? ;D I'm going to look through the Strauss thread,later. Yes,I know exactly what you mean. I went through that period of avoiding Strauss (although not Johann,in my case! ;D). I have always liked Also sprach Zarathustra,though;and Der Rosenkavalier;and I can remember ploughing through the library's record and cassette collection of Strauss when I was allot younger than I am now! Also,being captivated by a Radio broadcast of Elektra!!
Anyway,back to Dohnanyi,who composed operas too,I note!

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2016, 07:29:31 AM »
I'm not dissing him,MI! I've just finished spending a load of dosh on some of his operas. A recording of Daphne is still in the post,actually! If you want a wallow,Richard Strauss beats Dohnanyi any day!  Anyway,I think it's the sometimes rather obtrusive ego that I like about him. I think it's fun!! :)  I spent about a week,or two,listening to Der Rosenkavalier,Arabella,Capriccio and Ariadne auf Naxos only recently. Like you I went through a period of loathing! I can see a large pile of alternative recordings of Richard Strauss operas developing,if I'm not too careful! ;D I think,like you,I've got the bug!

I know you're not dissing him. I was just joshing with you, my friend. I'm not a huge fan of opera, but I do like many of his operas on occasion, especially Elektra, Salome, Die Frau ohne Schatten, and Der Rosenkavalier. His tone poems are absolutely exquisite as are his Four Last Songs, Metamorphosen, and the Neoclassical Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme. I also like the raucous fun of the concertante work for piano/orchestra, Burleske.
“Works of art make rules; rules do not make works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline Scion7

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2016, 08:10:17 AM »
A thorough listen to the Dohnányi catalogue of works is good for the soul any time.
Your barricades lie broken ... your enemies lord.

cilgwyn

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2016, 08:23:30 AM »
Yes,I just read some of your early posts about opera,MI. Something along the lines of "screw them!" I was glad I put Don Quixote on! ;D Yeah,I did realise. I forgot to put the all important ;D in!! ;D ;D otherwise you think I'm ??? :( after reading your post! Actually,I had two recordings of Der Rosenkavalier;Solti and Karajan with Schwarzkopf (the singer people either love or hate!) I like her singing,so I decided to get her recordings of Capriccio and Ariadne. Of course,they're in mono. I thought I can't just have mono recordings! The next minute I'm buying stereo recordings of them. Then I HAD to have Arabella,because some people say it's a sort of 'sequel' to Der Rosenkavalier (not really,actually!!) and that led to Daphne,which I was going to resist;but it's got Lucia Popp one of my all time favourite singers,as a wood nymph!!! Now suddenly my shelves are groaning with Richard Strauss operas,and I'm groaning at the dent in my bank balance!! Thank goodess I don't like Wagner......and no,please don't anyone post any suggestions for Wagner I WILL like. It WON'T work!
 I hope!!! ::) ;D

I can see Vandermolen having the same Saul on the way to Damascus moment with Strauss. His shelves will be sagging under the weight of multiple copies of the complete works of Richard Strauss,now. And he'll love him!! :) :) :)

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2016, 08:33:38 AM »
Yes,I just read some of your early posts about opera,MI. Something along the lines of "screw them!" I was glad I put Don Quixote on! ;D Yeah,I did realise. I forgot to put the all important ;D in!! ;D ;D otherwise you think I'm ??? :( after reading your post! Actually,I had two recordings of Der Rosenkavalier;Solti and Karajan with Schwarzkopf (the singer people either love or hate!) I like her singing,so I decided to get her recordings of Capriccio and Ariadne. Of course,they're in mono. I thought I can't just have mono recordings! The next minute I'm buying stereo recordings of them. Then I HAD to have Arabella,because some people say it's a sort of 'sequel' to Der Rosenkavalier (not really,actually!!) and that led to Daphne,which I was going to resist;but it's got Lucia Popp one of my all time favourite singers,as a wood nymph!!! Now suddenly my shelves are groaning with Richard Strauss operas,and I'm groaning at the dent in my bank balance!! Thank goodess I don't like Wagner......and no,please don't anyone post any suggestions for Wagner I WILL like. It WON'T work!
 I hope!!! ::) ;D

I can see Vandermolen having the same Saul on the way to Damascus moment with Strauss. His shelves will be sagging under the weight of multiple copies of the complete works of Richard Strauss,now. And he'll love him!! :) :) :)

Not to derail this thread any further, but I should say that I do like some operas. I'm going to listen to Act I tonight of Dvorak's Rusalka and this kind of opera intrigues me because it's based on a folk tale. I'm a complete sucker for these works that are centered around or influenced by folk tales. That whole kind of rustic quality in so much of Dvorak's music is irresistible for me. Regarding Wagner, I find it hard to believe that anyone wouldn't like the Forest Murmurs section from his opera Siegfried and not to mention all of the glorious music found in Tristan und Isolde or Das Rheingold for example. Well...with the exception of Saul. ;)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 08:37:43 AM by Mirror Image »
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Parsifal

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2016, 08:44:33 AM »
If that's the first piece to disappoint you, may I ask about some favorites? I love the sextet and listen occasionally to the piano quintets, but outside of his chamber music I don't know very much. The Nursery Variations are fun, of course.

Looking back at some listening notes that I have at hand, both of the Piano Concerti made a positive impression (Roscoe). No 1 struck me as very Brahmsian and No 2 more modern and original in style. I seem to have been most impressed with the first movement of the second concerto, which featured a flowing theme for piano accompanied by a "magnificent" theme for horns.

I also recall enjoying both symphonies (Bamert), although I do not recall specifically why. Probably I listened to them during the epoch when I was making notes on paper.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 09:06:10 AM by Scarpia »

cilgwyn

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2016, 09:49:54 AM »
I think I was just feeling tired,or I wouldn't have taken MI so seriously! I ended up listening to several hours of the Don Quixote,the Alpine Symphony and Ein Heldenleben. After that I must admit I baulked at Also Sprach Zarathustra,as well! The next morning I put on Steinberg conducting The Planets. For the first time in my life Mars the Bringer of War sounded relaxing!! But ordeal by Richard Strauss was not to end there! A few minutes later there was a knock at the door and the postman handed me a mysterious looking parcel bound with red tape and strange words in German (Fragile,possibly?). Inside was a s/h copy of Strauss' Daphne,with Lucia Popp as a Wood Nymph! :o :o :o

To be continued in the Richard Strauss thread,I fear?!!! ::) :( ;D

I will get to those Dohnanyi Piano Concertos as soon as I've finished listening to Holst and............... Daphne!!! :o :o :o ;D

cilgwyn

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2016, 12:08:50 PM »
I finally listened to the Hyperion cd of the Dohnanyi Piano Concertos. Very enjoyable. Dohnanyi's orchestration just glitters. These concertos have that aristocratic quality about them that I do like. I love those portentous introductions that Dohnanyi seems so good at. Yes,as I said,the tunes could be better.......I'll try humming one now..................... Nope!! ??? ;D But the music is so sumptuous and the third movement of the First Concerto has a lovely horn (?) theme and the closing pages are great stuff! The Second Piano Concerto is much later,of course. Again,the tunes could be better;but Dohnanyi's luxurious orchestration is.....well,like I said,so ;D,luxurious,that I can quite frankly forgive him this shortcoming;and most importantly,there is always a feeling of some end goal in sight,which keeps me listening. Hyperions engineering helps,of course. This is the sort of thing that Vox might have given us once (did they?!) with a third rate orchestra and thin,dry sound,to make matters worse. With works like these you definitely NEED sound quality to match!
I'm listening to the Hyperion cd of Marx and Korngold Piano Concertos now!!

Offline Rons_talking

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Re: Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960)
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2016, 12:33:00 PM »
Symphonic Minutes, VC #2, PC 2, and Six Pieces Op.41( for piano) are my prefered works of Dohyanyi. Admittedly, I've lost interest in most late romantic composers other than Mahler and the Russians, so I gravitate to the later works of EVD. My personal favorite is the 2nd Violin Concerto Op.43, which I much prefer to the Piano Concerto of the same period. It's imaginative and colorfully melodic.