The New Seven Wonders of the World GMG Votes!!

[Kullervo]

The Louvre Pyramid is a large etc. etc...

Sure it's impressive, but is it a WONDER?

In all fairness, I don't think the Sydney Opera House should count, either. It's too... utilitarian. A wonder implies, to me, a sort of impracticality.

[Bonehelm]

No the Louvre Pyramid shouldn't be counted as a wonder. Nor should 80% of the stuff on that list. Great Wall, sure, mysterious stones in Britain, sure, Angor blah blah, sure.

But Sydney Opera House? I mean, come on...

[Bonehelm]

Great. I aim to please.

Nice, so let's make that 3 from France. Now Italy, Germany and Great Britain will inevitably have problems with this and demand to have three as well, citing lots more wonderful thingies situated in their lands. Already we have 12, factor in the rest of Europe and this number will be multiplied, then the rest of the world. How many exactly do you want on this list? "The One-Hundred and One Wonders of the World" doesn't have the same ring to it as the old seven, and it divorces the list completely from that... Also, the more you accept, the more ridiculous it becomes to draw a line between what is a "wonder" and what is not.

It's really, really not. These things cannot be proven, but shove some photographs in the faces of some random people in the street all around Europe, and I am certain they will name the statue far more often. That is what makes it iconic rather than just excellent*. That is also what makes these lists silly.

*Iconic, btw, has nothing to do with objective worth credited by professionals. It is a nebulous term that is given to anything that has reached a culturally pervasive level of popularity and familiarity. It's why in the modern age, the most famous landmarks are the Eiffel Tower, the Statue of Liberty, the Sydney Opera House and so on, they're recognisable and unique. This is also why the notion of putting the Musikverein on this list borders on unreasonable, as a lot of other exquisite buildings which (to the casual observer) look extremely similar on the outside (and the fact that the Sydney Opera House has such clout as a recognisable monument means that people don't care about interiors, as the SOH's interior is bland as hell and wasn't designed by the same architect as the exterior). Any serious fan of architecture would not call for any list to be made, no matter how long.

These lists shouldn't be taken seriously.

I'm sorry, but if people don't even know the Louvre pyramid, then it's their fault for being IGNORANT. That doesn't make the pyramid non-famous. And you can ask around, and see how many people don't know what the Louvre pyramid is. I'm sure at least 80% of the people would say they've heard of it.

[Lethevich]

Btw Bonehelm - I edited my large post to include some Google results if it interests you. I did not claim it was not famous, I claimed it wasn't famous enough. I also made sure to distinguish a "great wonders" list from a list of buildings of real worth. A "top X list" relies on zeitgeists.

But Sydney Opera House? I mean, come on...

IMO it has become an icon for the entire hemisphere it's in. Of a forward-looking and aspirational group of people. I don't care if that sounds cheesy, many popular things are.

[Bonehelm]

Yes you did claim that it is not famous. You said it isn't famous, if it wasn't for the Da Vinci Code, not many people would have heard of it.
"If it wasn't for the Da Vinci Code (in which I believe it featured), I doubt many people would know about that pyramid" those are your exact words.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the statement. The Sydney opera house on the other hand, is also a very famous landmark of Australia. But is it New Seven Wonders Of the World worthy? Nope.

Once again, I do not think the Louvre Pyramid is a "wonder" either.

[Lethevich]

Yes you did claim that it is not famous. You said it isn't famous, if it wasn't for the Da Vinci Code, not many people would have heard of it.
"If it wasn't for the Da Vinci Code (in which I believe it featured), I doubt many people would know about that pyramid" those are your exact words.

I phrased it poorly/didn't go into enough detail. Generally many people will not recognise many supposedly famous things unless they are so hugely exposed to them that they are impossible not to know - stuff like the Statue of Liberty, Big Ben, Eiffel Tower, Sydney Opera House, etc. The amount of these things are very small, and among people who are actually interested in the subject (rather than just passively encounter these things in TV adverts, etc), there are the things which I would call famous, but not iconic on a popular level - this is how I distinguish the two. Sort of like how Beethoven's symphony nos.5 and 7 could both be considered very famous, but no.5 is the only one that almost everyone will be able to hum.

My opinion of a very great building is different to the criteria for these lists (populism/popular acceptance), and as I treat the two differently, I am fine with the Sydney Opera House or Eiffel Tower appearing on them, despite them not being my favourite buildings/constructs.

[Bonehelm]

I phrased it poorly/didn't go into enough detail. Generally many people will not recognise many supposedly famous things unless they are so hugely exposed to them that they are impossible not to know - stuff like the Statue of Liberty, Big Ben, Eiffel Tower, Sydney Opera House, etc. The amount of these things are very small, and among people who are actually interested in the subject (rather than just passively encounter these things in TV adverts, etc), there are the things which I would call famous, but not iconic on a popular level - this is how I distinguish the two. Sort of like how Beethoven's symphony nos.5 and 7 could both be considered very famous, but no.5 is the only one that almost everyone will be able to hum.

My opinion of a very great building is different to the criteria for these lists (populism/popular acceptance), and as I treat the two differently, I am fine with the Sydney Opera House or Eiffel Tower appearing on them, despite them not being my favourite buildings/constructs.

Fair enough, Lethe. 

[Lethevich]

Btw, poor Timbuktu is the only one which didn't get a vote

[Bonehelm]

We need more people to vote...we have way more than 20 members on GMG..

[Steve]

Sure it's impressive, but is it a WONDER?

In all fairness, I don't think the Sydney Opera House should count, either. It's too... utilitarian. A wonder implies, to me, a sort of impracticality.

Why? That would preclude most architectural marvels. Why not, simply consider it's aesthetic value independent of its practicality?

[knight66]

The old Wonders were structures of function, even if that was as a burial chamber. Sadly there is so little left of the earlier Wonders. Earthquakes, war and deprivations seem to have done for most of them.

The mausoleum in Halicarnassus, though damaged by an earthquake was in good condition until the crusaders happened by. They plundered the structure for stones to build Bodrum castle in 1402 and other buildings. All that is now left in situ is a corner of the foundations in a muddy pit. Some of the beautiful bas relief sculptures have been incorporated in various buildings, drawings exist showing them in 1792, since when even those have disappeared.

We are fortunate we still have what remains of the Acropolis to give us that option. It was in good condition until the 19th cent, however the main temple was used as an arsenal in the wars with the Ottomans and it blew up. The greater danger however was when the Greeks instituted a royal family. There were serious plans in the middle of the 19th cent to build an enormous royal palace on the High Place and this would have involved partly clearing the site. The only thing that saved the ruins was a lack of money to enable the scheme to come to fruition.

I voted, though a number of mine do not get near the top of the list. I am planning a trip to Petra for next April.

Mike

[Maciek]

mysterious stones in Britain, sure

And what's unique about them? I mean, even in Britain there are similar sites. And others in many places around Europe (perhaps in other places around the globe too?). And well, frankly, I don't really see what people are getting excited about. It's just a bunch of big rocks lying around...

[knight66]

Actually I agree and when you get to them they don't seem very large. The remarkable things about them.

1) They are large in relation to the primitive tools and lack of the wheel.

2) They were brought a great distance to the site.

3) They are aligned with certain celestial events and movements.

But one of the wonders of the world....no...not in my opinion.

Mike

[AnthonyAthletic]

Keeping its status, the Great Pyramid.

The New Seven were elected Saturday evening.  I got 4 right in the poll.

Here's the verdict from over 100 million votes which hardly represents the World, but here goes.

The Pyramid at Chichen Itza (before 800 A D ) Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico
Christ the Redeemer (1931) Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
The Great Wall of China (220 B C and 1368-1644 A D ) China
Machu Picchu (1460-1470), Peru
Petra (9 B C -40 A D ), Jordan
The Roman Colosseum (70-82 A D ) Rome, Italy
The Taj Mahal (1630 A D ) Agra, India

We will do it all again, in 4207, any takers?

[Kullervo]

We will do it all again, in 4207, any takers?

I can assure you that I will be there.

[Bonehelm]

I can assure you that I will be there.

Be sure to vote for the historical remaining site of North Korea after it has been nuked 23498 times over by the U.S. at that time, as well as the other 95% of the world as explosion sites for biological weapons. 

[knight66]

I am a bit disappointed buy the choice, but that's life. I will as you say, just have to wait it out for the next poll.

Mike

[M forever]

Keeping its status, the Great Pyramid.

The New Seven were elected Saturday evening.  I got 4 right in the poll.

Here's the verdict from over 100 million votes which hardly represents the World, but here goes.

The Pyramid at Chichen Itza (before 800 A D ) Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico
Christ the Redeemer (1931) Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
The Great Wall of China (220 B C and 1368-1644 A D ) China
Machu Picchu (1460-1470), Peru
Petra (9 B C -40 A D ), Jordan
The Roman Colosseum (70-82 A D ) Rome, Italy
The Taj Mahal (1630 A D ) Agra, India

We will do it all again, in 4207, any takers?

Wow, that horrible Jesus kitsch thing in Rio is one of the "New Seven Wonders"?

Speaking of kitsch, I wonder which idiots here voted for Neuschwanstein. That's a pretty sad choice, considering it's not even a real castle, but a mentally ill king's proto-Disneyan romantic kitsch extravaganza.

OK, the Taj Mahal is a pretty kitschy extravaganza, too, I guess. But definitely an architectural achievement. I watched a documentary about architectural marvels of India or something like that a few weeks ago, and there were some palaces or religious buildings of some sort which were built very high and ornated with *thousands* of statues, and these looked far more impressive than the Taj Mahal. At least on TV. I don't recall exactly where and what those were, though.   


Of the above, I have seen the Colosseum and Chichen Itza. Both are fairly impressive, and Chichen Itza is a very interesting and very big archaeological site spread out over a very large area. There are a number of smaller pyramids, a sacrificial site  , the "ball game" stadium, some living quarters, apparently palaces of some sort, and the famous "observatorium". All in all, an indeed rather impressive site, but I doubt there aren't many, many, many others that are equally impressive all over the world. I think there are even similar sites in Mexico alone. And the "big" pyramid isn't even that "big" at all.
In fact, it's rather small, really. But I still enjoyed the day there a lot.
But man, was it hot and humid! I have no problems with heat, but it was really humid, too, you could almost drink the air.
Here is a picture of me staring into the sun and sweating in front of the "observatorium":

[Kullervo]

And the "big" pyramid isn't even that "big" at all.

If memory serves, the pyramid at Teotihuacan is much larger.

[M forever]

No kidding. It's hard to tell exactly from pictures, but if I compare this to the highly artistic picture I took myself of the pyramid at Chichen Itza, it looks like it's about 10 times bigger.

Did you take that picture yourself?