CD prices - particularly Naxos

[Grazioso]

A couple interesting quotes from a recent interview with Herr Heymann:

"Heymann, who founded Naxos to promote the artistry of his wife, violinist Takako Nishizaki, explained that Naxos is no longer simply a record label. Instead, it's a service provider to the classical-music industry that also has a label."

Heymann: "Where we used to sell 40,000 copies of an orchestral recording, we now sell 10,000 or 15,000. At that rate, we can't make money any more. So we make money from distribution and licensing."

http://www.naxos.com/news/default.asp?op=802&displaymenu=Naxos_News&type=2

And this interview question goes back to what we were just discussing:

"ALM Are your marquee releases, recordings by Marin Alsop and Leonard Slatkin, profitable?
KH Frankly none of them make any money, if you ask me. Even the Bernstein Mass [with Marin Alsop and the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra], we sold 20,000 sets worldwide, has still not made any money for us. It's in copyright; it cost us a lot of money to produce, and cost the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra a lot. At our price we have to sell a lot a lot of records to break even. For us these are prestige projects. It's good for the label; we make money from licensing and distribution; it just goes from the pot. The only thing you can make money from these days is guitar solo or piano which doesn't cost you anything [to record.] With an orchestra recording you have to sell 20,000, and nothing sells 20,000 these days. Unless you are a blind Japanese pianist. Then you sell 100,000 copies in Japan. [Heymann is referring to Nobuyuki Tsujii, the co-winner of the last Cliburn competition.]"

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-classical-beat/2010/07/the_future_of_the_recording_in.html

[Harry]

Since a year I carefully ponder which Naxos recordings are interesting to buy. In the days when they were really bargain price, I bought almost 80% of what came on the market. Not anymore however, I brought it back to 30%. And I saw that Hyperion budget label Helios, has increased in price considerably too, also means I will buy less. Not such a bad decision, I have so many discs in the waiting list to be played.

[71 dB]

Heymann: "Where we used to sell 40,000 copies of an orchestral recording, we now sell 10,000 or 15,000. At that rate, we can't make money any more.

What has happened? More competition? Less people into classical music? Downloading (what brings money if legal)? The drop in sales figures is HUGE! 

[The new erato]

What has happened? More competition? Less people into classical music? Downloading (what brings money if legal)? The drop in sales figures is HUGE! 

It's simple. A few of us (I won't name names) have run out of shelf space.

[71 dB]

It's simple. A few of us (I won't name names) have run out of shelf space.

If it's that simple then Naxos should immediately expand their business to bookshelves and CD storage solutions! 

[The new erato]

Great prices on Naxi today only at europadisc.co.uk; For those of us outside the EU zone and able to buy without VAT; £ 3.71.

First batch:

8572398: Stockhausen - Mantra
8111381: Alfred Cortot: 1929-1937 Recordings
8572270: Bizet - Te Deum, Clovis et Clotilde
8572280: Weinberg - Complete Music for Solo Cello Vol.1
8572271: Piazzolla - Sinfonia Buenos Aires, etc

[Brian]

Great prices on Naxi today only at europadisc.co.uk; For those of us outside the EU zone and able to buy without VAT; £ 3.71.

First batch:

8572398: Stockhausen - Mantra
8111381: Alfred Cortot: 1929-1937 Recordings
8572270: Bizet - Te Deum, Clovis et Clotilde
8572280: Weinberg - Complete Music for Solo Cello Vol.1
8572271: Piazzolla - Sinfonia Buenos Aires, etc

I've got VAT, but free shipping. It's a bit sad that US$6.85 is now a super-duper sale price for Naxos, but whatever. Will look through. My copy of that Weinberg is already here in shrink wrap, looking forward to giving it a spin.

[Scarpia]

I've got VAT, but free shipping. It's a bit sad that US$6.85 is now a super-duper sale price for Naxos, but whatever. Will look through. My copy of that Weinberg is already here in shrink wrap, looking forward to giving it a spin.

I've bought a new Naxos recordings in the past month and $6.85 is more than I have ever had to pay.

[The new erato]

UI'm aware that one can have many titles real cheap from amazon resellers, but postagewise it usually doesn't pan out when the destination is Norway, particularly if the seller only have one or two titles you want.

[Brian]

Hmm, ClassicsOnline's own download price is more expensive. Amazon Marketplace has some new discs for less but they charge for shipping - like erato says, though even to England the price of a cheaper Marketplace seller + p&p tends to more or less = the price at Europadisc.

[Scarpia]

The bottom line is you are getting a brand new recording for six bucks and change, and you are complaining.  That's what is a bit sad, from my point of view.   How is anyone ever going to make a buck of an audio recording in that environment? 

[Bulldog]

The bottom line is you are getting a brand new recording for six bucks and change, and you are complaining. 

There are times when some members seem to be more interested in comparison shopping than the music.

[springrite]

In 1988, a full price CD is about $12.99.
A dozen eggs were:
A pack of cigarettes were:
a cup of coffee was:



Well, it seems CD prices has not increased at all, me thinks.

[mc ukrneal]

In 1988, a full price CD is about $12.99.
A dozen eggs were:
A pack of cigarettes were:
a cup of coffee was:



Well, it seems CD prices has not increased at all, me thinks.

Sorry? A full price CD today costs 17.99/18.99/19.99/21.99/25.99/etc... There is less conformity than in the past. Dutton, Opera Rara, and Timpani are all at $25.99 retail for a CD at Amazon (and up to $30 per CD at other sites). Hyperion is $19.99-21.99. This comparison is also difficult to make, because CDs were still new in those days and there was a premium for the then new technology.

Is $7 too much for a CD? Could go both ways on this. There are some discs that are worth it, but others that are not. Ultimately, the lower prices allow me to experiment much more than I would otherwise. As prices go up, I will reconsider two things: 1) Whether to buy music or not (or how much) and 2) Reconsider other avenues that I had previously rejected (online listening, downloads, etc.).

I think what surprised me most about the increase was 1) The size - $1.5-2.0 pretty much across the board, and 2) The odd pricing (no consistency across the brand).

[Scarpia]

Sorry? A full price CD today costs 17.99/18.99/19.99/21.99/25.99/etc... There is less conformity than in the past. Dutton, Opera Rara, and Timpani are all at $25.99 retail for a CD at Amazon (and up to $30 per CD at other sites). Hyperion is $19.99-21.99. This comparison is also difficult to make, because CDs were still new in those days and there was a premium for the then new technology.

Taking inflation into account, that price of $12.99 is $24 dollars. That is more than the list price of all but a few boutique labels today.   In those days you typically had to pay list price.  I don't recall paying list price for a single CD in the last three years.   Taking advantage of Amazon marketplace a new, full price CD comes in at $12, typically.  The last new "full price" CD I got was $9 (list price $17.99).



The prices are low enough that most CD labels appear to be border-line insolvent, so complaining about prices strikes me as absurd.

[Brian]

Well, I'm afraid the whole argument is moot. I just went through EuropaDisc's catalog, adding everything interesting to my shopping cart. I got to 180 pounds' worth of Naxos CDs, EMI/DG boxes, and DG Originals issues, and then EuropaDisc wiped my entire shopping cart. Now it's only got "The Virtuoso Viola." That really pisses me off. I wasn't going to buy 180 pounds' worth of stuff - check out some on NML or Spotify, or Christmas-wish some of it. But I simply haven't got the time to go back and reassemble that list or re-add it all to my cart. Ugh. What a waste of time that was.

As for the comparison shopping charge, of course I'm guilty. I'm living on about $140 a week in central London, and for a non-necessity like physical CDs, especially with no storage space, lots of spending on everything that sounds interesting is not easy to justify.

[mc ukrneal]

Taking inflation into account, that price of $12.99 is $24 dollars. That is more than the list price of all but a few boutique labels today.   In those days you typically had to pay list price.  I don't recall paying list price for a single CD in the last three years.   Taking advantage of Amazon marketplace a new, full price CD comes in at $12, typically.  The last new "full price" CD I got was $9 (list price $17.99).



The prices are low enough that most CD labels appear to be border-line insolvent, so complaining about prices strikes me as absurd.

Are you including shipping or not in your prices? You need the all in cost or else you are comparing apples to oranges.

I don't understand the economics of CD companies at all. They have been claiming that CDs are unprofitable for as long as I can remember. Yet, they all still manage to stay in business. I cannot reconcile these. For example, when Naxos guy says 10-15k, is he including subecribers to the online service or downloaders? I suspect not - and the margin should be higher for those I would think.

[Bulldog]

As for the comparison shopping charge, of course I'm guilty. I'm living on about $140 a week in central London, and for a non-necessity like physical CDs, especially with no storage space, lots of spending on everything that sounds interesting is not easy to justify.

Sounds like you're into a "prioritization" mode; that's good.  Even when I had tons of money, I felt the need to prioritize by only putting on my "to buy" list those recordings that most attracted me. 

[springrite]

For the most part I still get my CDs at an average price of $7 per CD because I use BRO and I shop around for the best prices. That is pretty much the same as before. But I understand that is way below cost for the recording companies. Just because I won't pay $17.99 per CD does not mean that price is not justified. It just means I won't pay it.

[Bulldog]

For the most part I still get my CDs at an average price of $7 per CD because I use BRO and I shop around for the best prices. That is pretty much the same as before. But I understand that is way below cost for the recording companies. Just because I won't pay $17.99 per CD does not mean that price is not justified. It just means I won't pay it.

The best deal I ever made on a recording was Tureck's complete WTC on DG; the cost was over $60.