Topic: Analyze This!: snyprrr's Composition Page

[snyprrr]

UNDER COINSTRUCTION

You just wait!









uh,... yea, will this drop from page1 in record time?

[Bulldog]

UNDER COINSTRUCTION

You just wait!









uh,... yea, will this drop from page1 in record time?

I hope not.  I'm very interested in how coins are constructed.

[Scarpia]

UNDER COINSTRUCTION

You just wait!









uh,... yea, will this drop from page1 in record time?

Maybe you could have posted the thread after you decided what to put into it.   

[snyprrr]

Maybe you could have posted the thread after you decided what to put into it.   

That was the 2017 plan!

I'll get a horse (to put before the cart) so enough!



Either way, the first item up for consideration will be this guitar piece, Tekh (touch? in Greek). The plan is for extreme difficulty and extreme uniqueness, which, I think, for Guitar Music is a real challenge, yet I think I have found a way.

I have about seven sections, and have begun writing (in regular notation) in a few of these, but, my writing capabilities are turtle-like. Much of the piece, in order for me to write it (there are many instances of different strings playing the same not,... a characteristic unique, I think, to the guitar (I can ALMOST play six e-notes at the same time!)) I have had to use up to 3-4 staves. But, it looks correct.

[snyprrr]

When "thinking" about writing Serious Music, I become paralyzed. It seems I am NOT like Shostakovich or Villa-Lobos, who could Compose on a construction site. It seems I need a hermetically sealed studio enviroment, complete with dancing girls and incense, to get me in the "mood".

I have no discipline, I'm terribly lazy, and if I can see it in my head, why should I write it down? These are some of the obstacles I face.

The fact that I want such a difficult piece, also, works against my lazy attitude towards writing sooo many notes. I remember Magnus Lindberg gloating that he had never written an Adagio, haha! Now I understand!



So far, with this guitar piece Tekh, I am happy with the way it begins. I want to say more, but I am notoriously paranoid too, haha! I think the slightest thing I give away will ruin everything. I can see what might have happened to Rachmaninov (in the confidence dept).

I am also having to limit all the guitar possibilities, which effects to keep, which to discard. I have had to go back to the 70s of Kagel, where barking and stomping were more important than notes, and I have decided to include percussiveness on the guitar body, and maybe even some foot accents (like a bass drum) for a bassy boof on certain hits, but I have decided to leave out the guitarist's mouth as part of the instrument. I do intend most of the pyrotechnics to be limited to the fingerboard.

Also, certain two-handed techniques will have to be re-evaluated. I'm working on some sounds where you will hear the tone sound from BOTH sides of the string.



Have I every finished ANYTHING? That will be one of the questions I hope this Thread will answer in the positive.

[snyprrr]

btw- we've almost caught up with Henning's Headquaters, so, let keep it pumping.

[snyprrr]

ok, I'll just put it out there:



That guitar piece I'm working on, well, very close to the beginning, I've fallen into a spot where the music is stuck, rocking, between two changing chords: one, having 'B' as the leading tone, and one, having 'D#' as the leading tone (ultimately, both chords drawing towards 'B Major').

The section itself is working out fine, as I shift the chords whilst keeping the leading tones strong, but, considering the totally dissonant section which is to follow, and, that this section is beginning to take on a cosmic/tonal character,... I'm having difficulty breaking out of this 'obsessive' 'tyranny' that I've found myself in.

As the two chords slowly go back and forth, I've been keeping the low 'E' string going too, increasing the soft, tonal sound.



I'm looking for the most jarring, yet appropriate notes for the transition, but I'm having difficulty.

The last chord, before the one I haven't found yet, is, either, an 'E5' chord spread over five strings (with 'B' leading tone), or an 'E Major 7' chord over five strings (with 'D#' leading tone). Either chord would have the low 'E' string open as a bass tone.



The best chord I've come up with so far is:

1-X
2-X
3-1
4-1
5-0
6-1



The point is, I'm going along in this ultra dissonant way, and I get hung up on an ever more consonant section, when, in fact, I'm supposed to be getting back to the regular chugging of the dissonant music.

I guess,... I'm trying to go from a section where 'B' and 'D#' are it, to a section where 'Bb' is it, and nothing is working for me to my satisfaction. Hmmm.

[canninator]

Hi snyprrr, how's the piece coming along? I was listening to a new recording of Ginastera's sonata for guitar today and thought it is something you should definitely check out. The Scherzo in particular uses lots of extended technique for the guitar including lots of percussive effects. CDs are pretty easy to come by but the score you would have to purchase. Don't have it myself or I would send it.

[snyprrr]

Hi snyprrr, how's the piece coming along? I was listening to a new recording of Ginastera's sonata for guitar today and thought it is something you should definitely check out. The Scherzo in particular uses lots of extended technique for the guitar including lots of percussive effects. CDs are pretty easy to come by but the score you would have to purchase. Don't have it myself or I would send it.

I've been meaning to get back to you. Might as well do it here!

Your first note gave me a lot to think about. As far as percussive, I realized you might be implying the use of any foreign object,... this of course would expand the percussive palette. For my purposes, I'd like to concentrate only on what the hands can do. For that reason, I offer:

1) Nails on the body

2) Fingers on the body

3) Palm fat on the body

4) Fingers/Nails on the neck.headstock

I must be missing something? I just have been banging around on the thing, and I just don't think I'm getting that many DISTINCTIVE sounds. The dull thud of the palm, or the click of a nail, of the rat-a-tat-tat of the fingertips,... but what am I missing?

Finger taps on the top of the body, to me, don't sound that different from finger taps on the SIDE of the body,... or the side of the body and the neck,... in a concert application, are these sounds really that distinct?

One thing I have been considering is a foot stomp along with a palm/body thud, as long as the shoe/floor situation yields a proper sound.


One thing: there may be a lot going on, where a tap/thud is only going to be one sound amongst many (string snaps, harmonics, other special effects), so, 2-3 generic percussive sounds (that are distinguishable from one another) might be all that's needed.


btw- I will check the Ginastera.



Another thing that appears to be developing in this piece are the different ways of 'scraping' the strings, which, on a classical, really only works on the 3 bass strings. I've been working on the 'long scrape' (similar to what rock guitarists do with the pick scraping down the string), the 'variable speed slide', which makes a high, whistling sound when your finger slides up and down (this is that 'unwanted' sound when we switch positions), and the 'short scrape' on E6, which sounds like a creaky spring.

On the top 3 strings, running your fingers up and down them yields a sound similar to breathing (if done in an 'in/out' manner), which is definitely making it in (though, this takes the piece into dangerous territory as per execution).



As to our initial mss.,... did I mention Elliott Sharp? Punch in 'Elliott Sharp solo' on YouTube and check that viddie out. He has some interesting ideas (though he uses open Eb tuning, so it's easy), but he also appears extremely sloppy (compared to a classical guitarist). At first I was conquered, but, after a while, I got what he was doing.



Also, what do you think about plucking the fretted string from the Nut side of the equation (instead of from the Bridge/normal side)? You can still get tones,... I just wonder if all classical guitars will have the same scale?


I'm reeeally lazy, and already I have written A LOT of notes on paper (first draft),... oy!,... how do they do it??? discipline, discipline, discipline

[snyprrr]

Hi snyprrr, how's the piece coming along? I was listening to a new recording of Ginastera's sonata for guitar today and thought it is something you should definitely check out. The Scherzo in particular uses lots of extended technique for the guitar including lots of percussive effects. CDs are pretty easy to come by but the score you would have to purchase. Don't have it myself or I would send it.

Well, it's a year later!

Now that I see it'sa been a whole year, I'm disgusted with myself.

I have been working on it lately. I discovered Arthur Kampela, who writes really funky sound stuff, and yes, the Ginastera was helpful.

I'm just depressed now.

[snyprrr]

ok, I'll just put it out there:



That guitar piece I'm working on, well, very close to the beginning, I've fallen into a spot where the music is stuck, rocking, between two changing chords: one, having 'B' as the leading tone, and one, having 'D#' as the leading tone (ultimately, both chords drawing towards 'B Major').

The section itself is working out fine, as I shift the chords whilst keeping the leading tones strong, but, considering the totally dissonant section which is to follow, and, that this section is beginning to take on a cosmic/tonal character,... I'm having difficulty breaking out of this 'obsessive' 'tyranny' that I've found myself in.

As the two chords slowly go back and forth, I've been keeping the low 'E' string going too, increasing the soft, tonal sound.



I'm looking for the most jarring, yet appropriate notes for the transition, but I'm having difficulty.

The last chord, before the one I haven't found yet, is, either, an 'E5' chord spread over five strings (with 'B' leading tone), or an 'E Major 7' chord over five strings (with 'D#' leading tone). Either chord would have the low 'E' string open as a bass tone.



The best chord I've come up with so far is:

1-X
2-X
3-1
4-1
5-0
6-1



The point is, I'm going along in this ultra dissonant way, and I get hung up on an ever more consonant section, when, in fact, I'm supposed to be getting back to the regular chugging of the dissonant music.

I guess,... I'm trying to go from a section where 'B' and 'D#' are it, to a section where 'Bb' is it, and nothing is working for me to my satisfaction. Hmmm.

ok, so I've been working on this piece for almost TWO YEARS?? !! ?? !!

Wow, I remember being there... I must say that this piece has come a long way. I'm furiously looking for solutions to all these 'linking bits' so I can 'chain' together what I have so far (which, all together, will form 'Part 1' (out of two)). Aye, this is truly WORK!! When I get 'Part 1' all together, then I'm going to fully frontally assault the 'Part 2' toccata,... oy, all those notes.

I HAAAAAAAAAAATE WRITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Coming here with a pop/rock background, I'm so used to just PLAYING something,... THIS is brutal!!

Still, I can't wait for response. I'm expecting it to be quite a piece (for guitar). I have purposely made it unique and different, and I can tell you ... well,... let's not get too ahead of ourselves,... but, I DO consider myself a guitarist, so, I expect not failure.


The linking section I'm working on now is really giving me fits, but I'm learning about how to apply SOLUTIONS,... which aren't always what I initially started with,... but, as long as the finished bit 'sounds' ok, well, who am I to complain?

Aye, it'd be nice to accomplish SOMETHING in this life.

Onward, forward.

Carry on.... stiff upper lip, chaps...

[snyprrr]

ok, I'll just put it out there:



That guitar piece I'm working on, well, very close to the beginning, I've fallen into a spot where the music is stuck, rocking, between two changing chords: one, having 'B' as the leading tone, and one, having 'D#' as the leading tone (ultimately, both chords drawing towards 'B Major').

The section itself is working out fine, as I shift the chords whilst keeping the leading tones strong, but, considering the totally dissonant section which is to follow, and, that this section is beginning to take on a cosmic/tonal character,... I'm having difficulty breaking out of this 'obsessive' 'tyranny' that I've found myself in.

As the two chords slowly go back and forth, I've been keeping the low 'E' string going too, increasing the soft, tonal sound.



I'm looking for the most jarring, yet appropriate notes for the transition, but I'm having difficulty.

The last chord, before the one I haven't found yet, is, either, an 'E5' chord spread over five strings (with 'B' leading tone), or an 'E Major 7' chord over five strings (with 'D#' leading tone). Either chord would have the low 'E' string open as a bass tone.



The best chord I've come up with so far is:

1-X
2-X
3-1
4-1
5-0
6-1



The point is, I'm going along in this ultra dissonant way, and I get hung up on an ever more consonant section, when, in fact, I'm supposed to be getting back to the regular chugging of the dissonant music.

I guess,... I'm trying to go from a section where 'B' and 'D#' are it, to a section where 'Bb' is it, and nothing is working for me to my satisfaction. Hmmm.

Well, I find myself hear at this same juncture again. I'm just going to lay it out, and yes, I AM making a little harder on myself than it needs to be.

I have two chords. One is the last chord of the previous part, and the other is the first chord of the next run. The chords are:

X
X (or '0', very light)
8
8
9
0

and the first chord of the next bit

NEIN NEIN NEIN

Look, I looking for the most remote chord to precede this:

X
0
3
2
4
0

which is kind of an F#7 chord. I need a shocking chord right before that. The 'C Major' trick isn't working here. I was thinking a 'g minor', which is ok, but not quite. Should I just try every major and minor chord until I hit an accident?




Also, what non-obvious chord would you play before this?:

X
3
6
0
4
2

f#minor6

[Leo K.]

In that situation, I usually try every living chord until one sounds right, also, I play the song in my mind and listen with my inner ear, hearing for the right chord to pop up. Sometimes switching instruments helps too, like playing the song on a piano if one is available

[Leo K.]

Oh, and sometimes the opposite of shocking works best, try a conventional chord change too!

[Cato]

In that situation, I usually try every living chord until one sounds right, also, I play the song in my mind and listen with my inner ear, hearing for the right chord to pop up. Sometimes switching instruments helps too, like playing the song on a piano if one is available

Good advice, Leo K !

Here is my idea...free of charge!   

Precede your F#minor 6 with a vicious strummed crescendo on C and then add F, then Bb, then Db
(final chord C-F-Bb-Db) which you can then "resolve" pianissimo into your F#minor 6 !   

[snyprrr]

Good advice, Leo K !

Here is my idea...free of charge!   

Precede your F#minor 6 with a vicious strummed crescendo on C and then add F, then Bb, then Db
(final chord C-F-Bb-Db) which you can then "resolve" pianissimo into your F#minor 6 !   

I like your 'stacked 4ths',... try moving it down to G-C-F-Bb,... wow, remember I was toying with the g-minor, ha, well, here is almost the same chord sound, but with the nice '4ths' wash, and when I play it:

X
X
3
3
3
3

going into the f#m6:

X
3
6
0
4
2

HEY NOW! , thaaat's falling nicely on me. What do you think, Cato? Your idea, down a fourth?

In that situation, I usually try every living chord until one sounds right, also, I play the song in my mind and listen with my inner ear, hearing for the right chord to pop up. Sometimes switching instruments helps too, like playing the song on a piano if one is available

Yes, very good, thanks!


I have a feeling there's a major major line to be crossed here with this piece shortly. Success can be a terrifying thing.


Great guys, that's for the shot of juice! Sometimes all you need is for someone to just care enough, no?

[Cato]

I like your 'stacked 4ths',... try moving it down to G-C-F-Bb,... wow, remember I was toying with the g-minor, ha, well, here is almost the same chord sound, but with the nice '4ths' wash, and when I play it:

HEY NOW! , thaaat's falling nicely on me. What do you think, Cato? Your idea, down a fourth?

Yes, very good, thanks!

Sure, whatever tickles your ears!   

Great guys, that's for the shot of juice! Sometimes all you need is for someone to just care enough, no?

That's us!  We take care of our members!   

[snyprrr]

I am tantalizingly close to spackling together the entire first 'Part' of the guitar piece, ready for criticisms and suggestions. I imagine all this lasting about 6 minutes!, which really seems like quite something to me. 6 minutes, woo hoo!! That does put us on pace for about a 10 minute piece.

Of course, now, I'm starting to get the 'what is this shit?' voices, but I know to ignore them and just trudge forward. So WHAT if it's 'shit'? I like to think I have some objectivity, and I do think this piece is 'different' and I think people will read the music and be interested in it. It certainly is a monster pain to play (I can't play it for people), so, I wonder if that will attract or repel.

Give me a little while longer and I'll give you all the opening sequence. I can't wait for your horrified reactions! And... by 'horrified', I mean, it really DOES 'sound' like shit, haha!! It is grindingly dissonant from the outset, with a gaggle of unwieldy chords that will have strings slipping out from beneath your fingers. I have actually tried to 'bring the pain' here, and I do wonder if people will decide that this piece is not conducive to their fingers' health. Hmm...

Anyhow, I've probably talked up the piece too much and you'll be disappointed! I'll go back and add a few more 'shockers' just to keep you in line!

I feel like a crackhead working on this piece. People around me are getting pissed.

[snyprrr]

Waaah!!

I need sooooooomeone to pay attention to me or I'll just die I tell you.

[petrarch]

I think we were all giving you a little while longer, waiting for the opening sequence...