Rigoletto in Mantua

[knight66]

I stand by my opinions also on what sound 'easy' or 'difficult'. No one is supposed to sound easy in that Boccegnera scene, not in specific areras of Rigoletto. That is very distinct from sounding strained.

Saying the famous ones all sound different does not do away with the issue of whether a singer is singing in the right range for them to express what the composer has put into the music.

BTW, I was not alone seemingly in my feelings on Domingo, his baritone performances seem to have had a mixed reception, including different opinions on the same performances...and it is ever thus.

Mike

[Xenophanes]

I stand by my opinions also on what sound 'easy' or 'difficult'. No one is supposed to sound easy in that Boccegnera scene, not in specific areras of Rigoletto. That is very distinct from sounding strained.

Saying the famous ones all sound different does not do away with the issue of whether a singer is singing in the right range for them to express what the composer has put into the music.

BTW, I was not alone seemingly in my feelings on Domingo, his baritone performances seem to have had a mixed reception, including different opinions on the same performances...and it is ever thus.

Mike

"I stand by my opinions also on what sound 'easy' or 'difficult'.

What sounds easy or difficult to you is of interest to you, but that is your subjective reaction and it  has nothing to do with whether a singer has to "reach for" notes. 

I haven't heard Domingo's recording of Boccanegra. I am disposed to give some weight to the opinions of those who have heard him do it live. 

Verdi baritones often have quite different voices, not to mention personalities (the examples in the Wikipedia article will do!). They have to do the part differently. Domingo is a tenor whose range covers the part of Rigoletto.  He has to do it within the parameters of his voice, just as do other singers.  He has to do it his own way, and does it very well.

If you look at some of the comments about the tenor, Vittoria Grigolo, you can see that some think he isn't a real Verdi tenor--too light a voice, etc.  Those who have heard him live seem to have had no difficulty hearing him.

[knight66]

I caught part of this production when it was broadcast on TV over Christmas. I saw from the scene where the kidnappers arrive at the palace and tell the Duke what they have been up to.

I enjoyed it as a performance and Mehta is obviously the man when you want to do this kind of live in situ performance with the orchestra piped in from elsewhere. The first time I saw it was during the Tosca with Domingo that was filmed in the specified places within Rome at the specified times of day. That was a terrific success.

I thought that in this Rigoletto Domingo acted marvelously and movingly. Verdi writes so many wonderful scenes between fathers and daughters. As in Boccenegra, that situation brought out his best. I did not much like the sound mix which put the voices in front of the orchestral sound. So, it vitiated any idea of the actual balance.

The Guilda was terrific, though of course I missed her most difficult music. The mezzo in the last act had a wonderfully exciting voice. I thought the tenor oversang and pushed phrases where charm would perhaps have brought more pleasant dividends.

Domingo did have occasional trouble in the lower half of the range. Two specific instances: when he discloses to the nobles the identity of their victim; he was pushing like mad and not much was coming out. When later in the scene with his daughter he swears vengeance, he seemed to be having problems again moving through that range at speed and projecting. The balance ensured that he was heard. I wonder what would have been heard in a theatre setup?

But really, it was terrifically good in many ways. Quite possibly the problems I heard were really highlighted because of our earlier discussion and I may well not have clocked them so clearly had I not been looking for them.

Mike

[Xenophanes]

I caught part of this production when it was broadcast on TV over Christmas. I saw from the scene where the kidnappers arrive at the palace and tell the Duke what they have been up to.

I enjoyed it as a performance and Mehta is obviously the man when you want to do this kind of live in situ performance with the orchestra piped in from elsewhere. The first time I saw it was during the Tosca with Domingo that was filmed in the specified places within Rome at the specified times of day. That was a terrific success.

I thought that in this Rigoletto Domingo acted marvelously and movingly. Verdi writes so many wonderful scenes between fathers and daughters. As in Boccenegra, that situation brought out his best. I did not much like the sound mix which put the voices in front of the orchestral sound. So, it vitiated any idea of the actual balance.

The Guilda was terrific, though of course I missed her most difficult music. The mezzo in the last act had a wonderfully exciting voice. I thought the tenor oversang and pushed phrases where charm would perhaps have brought more pleasant dividends.

Domingo did have occasional trouble in the lower half of the range. Two specific instances: when he discloses to the nobles the identity of their victim; he was pushing like mad and not much was coming out. When later in the scene with his daughter he swears vengeance, he seemed to be having problems again moving through that range at speed and projecting. The balance ensured that he was heard. I wonder what would have been heard in a theatre setup?

But really, it was terrifically good in many ways. Quite possibly the problems I heard were really highlighted because of our earlier discussion and I may well not have clocked them so clearly had I not been looking for them.

Mike

I presume when you say the tenor, Vittorio Grigolo, "oversang and pushed phrases where charm would perhaps have brought more pleasant dividends," you are talking about interpretation rather than some vocal pushing or straining. OK, so you prefer something different.

Julia Novikova was wonderful as Gilda. Vocally, she's not as capable as Roberta Peters was in my old RCA recording with Merrill and Bjoerling, for example, but she's very good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE9cousqsw0&feature=more_related

Nina Surguladze was good as Maddalena, too.

When you talk of Domingo having "occasional trouble in the lower half of the range," I have to wonder. "he was pushing like mad and not much was coming out." I don't hear any vocal trouble.  He's a very fine singer, with a very well trained voice, and he knows how to do all sorts of things with it without straining or hurting his voice.  He knows what he can do with it and doesn't try to do what he cannot do with it--which really wouldn't do any good, anyway.  I should point out, too, that the passage where he tells the courtiers that it's his daughter is rather lightly scored, so there's no reason why he wouldn't be heard in an opera house.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvywx1WlRFY&NR=1

I am not able to identify the other passage you mention. I presume it's something in this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnrwAJVO09A&feature=fvw

I don't really hear any vocal improprieties there. I think you really simply think he was somewhat miscast.  I have no problem with that.

I think you have a different conception of Rigoletto than Domingo has. Rigoletto is not a heroic figure, but a weak one.  What Domingo did was dramatically appropriate for his conception, and a good conductor (or director, since this is a movie) will ensure that the singers can be heard. 

One might think Gilda is too lenient on the Duke in wanting to forgive him, but still, given the power differences, it makes sense to let him go his own way.  But Rigoletto rashly, and in a cowardly way, seeks out the assassin, and it backfires on him.