Tempest in a Textbook

Started by karlhenning, December 29, 2010, 06:11:21 AM

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jowcol

Quote from: DavidRoss on December 31, 2010, 11:08:32 AM
Single-earner vs household, 9 mo vs 12 mo, teacher (quasi professional) vs attorneys, physicians, engineers, PhD government specialists, etc, in one of the highest income areas of the nation.

All valid points, but I would still say that most of the teachers in the school system I've interacted with are doing it as a vocation more of a profession.
"If it sounds good, it is good."
Duke Ellington

DavidRoss

Quote from: jowcol on December 31, 2010, 12:44:09 PM
All valid points, but I would still say that most of the teachers in the school system I've interacted with are doing it as a vocation more of a profession.
My experience, too--at least among the young ones and the good ones.  Though I might say as more of a vocation than an occupation, for the good ones are usually conduct themselves as conscientious professionals in addition to being innately gifted and motivated to teach. 
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Daverz

Quote from: DavidRoss on December 31, 2010, 09:52:10 AM
Indeed.  Much of the inanity of public education is a direct result of decades of school boards cowering before the threat of lawsuits by scumbag parents and their shysters.

If it wasn't for the threat of lawsuits, high school biology courses throughout large swaths of the country would consist of Bible readings.

DavidRoss

Quote from: Daverz on January 01, 2011, 01:50:10 AM
If it wasn't for the threat of lawsuits, high school biology courses throughout large swaths of the country would consist of Bible readings.
And the basis for this claim is...?
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Daverz

#24
Quote from: DavidRoss on January 01, 2011, 06:44:59 AM
And the basis for this claim is...?

A long history of such lawsuits: Epperson vs. Arkansas, Mclean vs. Arkansas, Edwards vs. Aguillard, most recently the Kitzmiller case. 

It wasn't until 1968 that Epperson vs. Arkansas struck down state laws against teaching evolution.

karlhenning

I can't see anyone claiming that the Bible is of any use as a biology text.

DavidRoss

Quote from: Daverz on January 01, 2011, 07:48:35 AM
A long history of such lawsuits: Epperson vs. Arkansas, Mclean vs. Arkansas, Edwards vs. Aguillard, most recently the Kitzmiller case. 

It wasn't until 1968 that Epperson vs. Arkansas struck down state laws against teaching evolution.
Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District -- Dover schools required reading a statement about intelligent design (apparently in this case some kind of Biblical Creation story?) prior to teaching about evolution.  Kitzmiller sued, claiming violation of the "Establishment of Religion" clause of the First Amendment.  Judge Jones (appointed by G.W. Bush) agreed with Kitzmiller.  Case closed.  All the school board members who voted for the requirement were subsequently voted out of office.

I don't see this as evidence that the threat of lawsuits is the only thing keeping "high school biology courses throughout large swaths of the country" from consisting of Bible readings.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

Daverz

#27
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 01, 2011, 10:50:39 AM
I can't see anyone claiming that the Bible is of any use as a biology text.

The creationists have their own biblically-based biology textbooks, of course.

I think you must lead a very protected life if you have never encountered people who make exactly this claim.  Or perhaps you're just very lucky.  Here's a dude who is making the claim not just for biology, but for astronomy, geology, and linguistics as well.

Daverz

Quote from: DavidRoss on January 01, 2011, 11:55:55 AM
I don't see this as evidence that the threat of lawsuits is the only thing keeping "high school biology courses throughout large swaths of the country" from consisting of Bible readings.

Well, voting out the school board is one solution.  It's not clear to me that the school board members would have been voted out without this case being brought.

"Bible readings" is a rhetorical flourish on my part.  There's usually some lipservice to creation "science", or as it's now called "intelligent design".  The book involved in the Kitzmiller case, Of Pandas and People started life as scientific creationist text and was turned in to an intelligent design text essentially by changing every instance of "creation" by "design".

Kitzmiller is a good example of yet another school board trying to inject religion into science classrooms.  One would have thought this was settled by Edwards vs. Aguillar, but there is constant pressure in various districts across the country to either not teach evolution or to introduce religious concepts into science classes.

jowcol

Obviously, they will need to give equal time in the curriculum for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for all of us who have been touched by his noodly appendage.  Pastafarians unite!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster



"If it sounds good, it is good."
Duke Ellington

jowcol

From today's Washington Post.  This covers some of the same ground, and in the last paragraph addresses how SOL and No Child Left Behind fit in.   I'm glad my kids haven't gotten this textbook.  The VA SOL Standards are a little too "state centered" for my taste, and the fact that  it hinders the textbook selection.  I must admit I like the author's other publishing credit. 


Quote
Textbook follies
Sunday, January 2, 2011

THE REVELATION that some Virginia history textbooks are riddled with factual mistakes is more than embarrassing. It's shameful that such shoddy scholarship could have passed a state review process and gone undetected for so long. More significantly, it raises the question of how useful the state's much vaunted Standards of Learning really are. After all, if the system can't get the easy things right, what does that say about its ability to deal with the real challenges of public education?

A review of history textbooks being used in some Virginia classrooms, including Fairfax County's, revealed dozens of errors. Among the mistakes: wrong date for America's entry into World War I, incorrect tally of states that joined the Confederacy, gross understatement of casualties at the battles of Bull Run. "I absolutely could not believe the number of mistakes - wrong dates and wrong facts everywhere," said Ronald Heinemann, one of the historians who reviewed Five Ponds Press's "Our Virginia: Past and Present." Reviewing another of the publisher's books, historian Mary Miley Theobald concluded the mistakes were "just too shocking for words." The unusual review of the books followed the disclosure by The Post's Kevin Sieff in October that "Our Virginia" included the statement (quite incorrect) that thousands of black soldiers fought for the South during the Civil War.

Perhaps the mistakes shouldn't have come as a surprise considering the author is not a trained historian and has produced works including "Oh, Yikes! History's Grossest, Wackiest Moments." One factor in the popularity of this particular publisher, clearly, is low cost. Virginia's superintendent of public instruction, Patricia I. Wright, moved quickly to deal with the fallout, ordering guidelines on how to deal with the misinformation and promising a tighter state review process, including a requirement that publishers provide documentation on the accuracy of their products. She should also give serious consideration to Mr. Heinemann's suggestion to drop the suspect texts as soon as possible.

Part of the state's predicament with the textbooks stems from the fact that its Standards of Learning require a specialization of instructional material not available on the national textbook market. With most other states signing on to the common core standards, more debate is needed about whether Virginia's insular pursuit of its own standards is still in the best interests of its students.

"If it sounds good, it is good."
Duke Ellington

Daverz

Quote
"Our Virginia" included the statement (quite incorrect) that thousands of black soldiers fought for the South during the Civil War.

There's been a movement in some quarters to try to rehabilitate the Confederacy.  I wonder if there was an ideological component to the selection of this textbook.  See for example:

McDonnell's Confederate History Month proclamation irks civil rights leaders

jowcol

Quote from: Daverz on January 02, 2011, 07:15:05 AM
There's been a movement in some quarters to try to rehabilitate the Confederacy.  I wonder if there was an ideological component to the selection of this textbook.  See for example:

McDonnell's Confederate History Month proclamation irks civil rights leaders

The writeup I posted cited low cost as the primary reason for the selection, which I'd think would be a stronger driver these days, despite some of the lingering presences to romanticize the Confederacy. (Which do exist, but aren't as common as they were 40 years ago.)  One would think that if the ideological component was an issue, at least they'd get a text  number of confederate states correct.

If anything, I think the text my kids are using in middle school emphasizes slavery as a cause to the exclusion of some of the economic and "states rights" factors which were wound up in the mix.  But once again, we were not subjected to the same textbook, and clearly the  existing "review process' was blinded by either ideology or the bottom line.
"If it sounds good, it is good."
Duke Ellington

karlhenning

This whole topic has something of a fell fascination . . . It cannot really be true, can it?

jowcol

Just consider this as "Oh, Yikes! History's Grossest, Wackiest Moments."
"If it sounds good, it is good."
Duke Ellington

karlhenning

Yes, there is a rich vein of self-fulfilled prophecy here, meseems.

MishaK

Quote from: Scarpia on December 31, 2010, 09:43:57 AM
Education is one area I wish we had "big" Federal government. ...

Quote from: jowcol on December 31, 2010, 10:36:46 AM
No Child Left Behind is a"big government" (Bush era) initiative. ...

It really doesn't matter whether it's big federal government, small local government or even private educactional institutions that set the curriculum. Either one can do a good job or a bad job. I have experience with all variations.  ;D As a European transplant, I do have to say though, one of the wackiest aspects of American democracy is the direct election of local school boards which wield so much power, combined with the fact that all elections happen on the same day in general. Result is that local nincompoops with no educational or other relevant expertise whatsoever run and get elected because nobody is paying attention to the down ticket candidates when more important elections are going on. Why would you want total incompetents deciding what your children learn and, by extentsion, how well our country advances? (Imagine if we elected the management of hospitals on that basis.) Never mind the inconsistencies across the country. It's no wonder the college application process is such a bloody mess, when the application officers reviewing the prospectives' files cannot make one to one comparisons because standards and curricula differ so widely. No wonder then also the fascination with this supremely idiotic standardized testing.

Scarpia

#37
Quote from: Mensch on January 04, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
It really doesn't matter whether it's big federal government, small local government or even private educactional institutions that set the curriculum. Either one can do a good job or a bad job. I have experience with all variations.  ;D

If a uniform science curriculum were defined by the US department of Education, with the advice of the National Academy of Science, I think we would have a much better curriculum than is available in 90% of US schools.  For language and non-scientic curriculum, I would hope there are other institutions in the US that could perform a similar function.  I would also like to see teachers employed directly by the US department of Education, with uniform standards throughout the country.  If people want their kids to learn that the universe was created by the Great Pumpkin, let them pay for their own school. 

Daverz

Quote from: Mensch on January 04, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
one of the wackiest aspects of American democracy is the direct election of local school boards which wield so much power, combined with the fact that all elections happen on the same day in general. Result is that local nincompoops with no educational or other relevant expertise whatsoever run and get elected because nobody is paying attention to the down ticket candidates when more important elections are going on. Why would you want total incompetents deciding what your children learn and, by extentsion, how well our country advances? (Imagine if we elected the management of hospitals on that basis.)

You make a very good point.  Every election I have trouble finding any information on school board candidates.  Local political party branches often don't bother to endorse school board candidates, either.

However, we do elected hospital boards the same way, at least in my area. 

jowcol

Quote from: Mensch on January 04, 2011, 02:13:36 PM
It really doesn't matter whether it's big federal government, small local government or even private educactional institutions that set the curriculum. Either one can do a good job or a bad job. I have experience with all variations.  ;D As a European transplant, I do have to say though, one of the wackiest aspects of American democracy is the direct election of local school boards which wield so much power, combined with the fact that all elections happen on the same day in general. Result is that local nincompoops with no educational or other relevant expertise whatsoever run and get elected because nobody is paying attention to the down ticket candidates when more important elections are going on. Why would you want total incompetents deciding what your children learn and, by extentsion, how well our country advances? (Imagine if we elected the management of hospitals on that basis.) Never mind the inconsistencies across the country. It's no wonder the college application process is such a bloody mess, when the application officers reviewing the prospectives' files cannot make one to one comparisons because standards and curricula differ so widely. No wonder then also the fascination with this supremely idiotic standardized testing.

A lot of good points.   

There is a side effect of the standardized testing is that the education will be geared to passing the standards (national or otherwise), which, no matter how good they are, which also means focusing on getting the majority to pass-- and not addressing the gifted or special needs students. As long as the standardized testing does not reflect different needs , even the best set of comprehensive standards will perpetuate the problem.
"If it sounds good, it is good."
Duke Ellington