Bartok's Bluebeard's Castle

[Mirror Image]

Time to resurrect this thread. Several posters here namely Bruce hadn't heard the Ludwig/Berry/Kertesz performance several years ago when I created this thread, I'm wondering if all the people who haven't heard this performance have heard it now?

[bhodges]

Time to resurrect this thread. Several posters here namely Bruce hadn't heard the Ludwig/Berry/Kertesz performance several years ago when I created this thread, I'm wondering if all the people who haven't heard this performance have heard it now?

I have not yet heard that performance - not for any particular reason, other than being a bit busy with some new projects, and I haven't had much time to listen to many recordings of various things (or to be on GMG, for that matter). But I hope to, at some point, since the opera is one of my favorites, and you and others have spoken highly of it.

I did finally listen to the one in the Concertgebouw Anthology, 1990-2000, with Ildikó Komlósi and Kolos Kovács, conducted by Iván Fischer - it's terrific, if you are open to a live performance. Kovács (b. 1948, also appears as "Kováts") is the Bluebeard on the Solti DVD, and he still sounded marvelous in 1990, when this was recorded.

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--Bruce

[Mirror Image]

I have not yet heard that performance - not for any particular reason, other than being a bit busy with some new projects, and I haven't had much time to listen to many recordings of various things (or to be on GMG, for that matter). But I hope to, at some point, since the opera is one of my favorites, and you and others have spoken highly of it.

I did finally listen to the one in the Concertgebouw Anthology, 1990-2000, with Ildikó Komlósi and Kolos Kovács, conducted by Iván Fischer - it's terrific, if you are open to a live performance. Kovács (b. 1948, also appears as "Kováts") is the Bluebeard on the Solti DVD, and he still sounded marvelous in 1990, when this was recorded.

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--Bruce

Thanks, Bruce. I've got that RCO Anthology set but haven't listened to that Bluebeard yet. Yes, definitely get around to Kertesz when you have time. You'll be most impressed by it I think.

[Karl Henning]

Bruce is right, that is a beautiful, exciting performance!

We were a bit spoiled, though:  there was a thrilling concert performance of the opera at Symphony Hall led by Jimmy.

[Mirror Image]

Bruce is right, that is a beautiful, exciting performance!

We were a bit spoiled, though:  there was a thrilling concert performance of the opera at Symphony Hall led by Jimmy.

Definitely will check it out. BTW, Karl, have you heard the Ludwig/Berry/Kertesz recording?

[Cosi bel do]

Great topic. I'll hate if we lost the following discussion :

Bartók

Saw this used in my local store today and considering today's Bartok recommendations I figured I should take it home with me!   

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I think Bluebeard is incredibly beautiful, but I wonder if it's a piscine friendly score. My girlfriend hates it. Curious to hear your reaction ...

Excellent, Moonfish! I don't own this Sawallisch performance surprisingly. Let me know what you think of the work. My favorite performance, of the recordings I own, is Ludwig/Berry/Kertesz on Decca. Outstanding performances all-around.

Well, good, I'll be happy to read your impressions about the opera
I don't own this version either, you've found kind of a rarity (but I've heard good things about it).

I can't say the same about Kertész. I mean, it's a nice, cozy, pleasant, comfy version, and superbly recorded. But there's more to Bluebeard's Castle than that.  I prefer Boulez with Troyanos and Nimsgern (CBS/Sony). And, above all, there's a 1981 performance with the same singers and the NYP conducted by Rafael Kubelik that sweeps any competition (the issue being if you listen to it a few times, you might have difficulties hearing any other version afterwards).

Well, you're certainly in the minority with Kertesz's Bluebeard. Every Bartokian I've spoken with either on Amazon, here, Talk Classical, wherever, rates this performance very highly and with good reason: it's eerily gorgeous. Every musical phrase is handled with absolute care and Ludwig/Berry are at the top of their game in every respect. I like the Boulez on Sony a lot as well. I probably own around 10 or 11 performances of this masterpiece on disc. The Eotvos on Hanssler is another good one IMHO.

So, yes, I'm well aware there's more to Bluebeard than one recording, but I still pick Kertesz above them all.

But there's one thing we can agree on and that's this opera is magnificent.

Sure

And discussion continuing elsewhere :

Bartók: Bluebeard's Castle            Fischer-Dieskau/Varady/Bayerisches Staatsorchester/Sawallisch

Earlier today I decided to put on my neophyte swim trunks and jump into the Bartók Sea for a first listen to 'Bluebeard's Castle'. I did it without a libretto since I simply wanted to take in the soundscape without any storyline to ponder.  It was definitely an interesting experience. I cannot say that I disliked it but I do not exactly like it either.  It is so dark and full of despair and sorrow - the soundscape wraps around the anguish of the two souls in a way I never really experienced before. I was more perplexed and intrigued than anything else, but also quite attracted to the eerie sorrow that tended to be present within almost every passage.  I think I will dig up a version on YouTube so I can experience the staging and the storyline as well as the music.  I sense that Bartók is an acquired taste, but also worth a second chance. I suspect that the music will grow on me (since I am a sucker for sorrowful passages in music)!   


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[Cosi bel do]

I think the topic might have been better under the "Opera and Vocal" section though, maybe it could be changed...

About versions, I have said a few things about this one, unfortunately oop on CD... Do NOT miss it...

http://www.youtube.com/v/1mCiL8iyp_k

[Moonfish]

What do you think about Michael Powell's film version sung in German?
"The performers are Norman Foster as Bluebeard and Ana Raquel Satre as Judit, his fourth wife, accompanied by the Zagreb Symphony Orchestra conducted by Milan Horvath."  [Wikipedia]


http://www.youtube.com/v/FSFFR9lSVJc

[Moonfish]

I really like Birgit Nilsson as Judith!!! I came across this segment (Door 6):

http://www.youtube.com/v/x3EppVJzCwI

Bernhard Sönnerstedt, Bluebeard

Birgit Nilsson, Judith

Ferenc Fricsay, conductor
Swedish Radio Orchestra

Live broadcast, February 10, 1953.

Probably the same as:

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or possibly



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[Ken B]

Great topic. I'll hate if we lost the following discussion :

Sure

And discussion continuing elsewhere :
[/quote

Thanks for collecting.

DBC was the very last Bartok I ever heard, and only about a year ago. After 35 years of listening to Bartok and hearing almost everything he wrote. Meh, I always thought, who really needs an early opera, in Magyar no less. Live and learn!

[Cosi bel do]

I really like Birgit Nilsson as Judith!!! I came across this segment (Door 6):

Yes, Nilsson is good, but it really doesn't work as well when sung in German. This music is really meant to be sung in Hungarian and a German version sounds as unnatural than in a Mozart/Da Ponte opera...
It's quite ironic that it should be Fricsay who conducted it in another language than his own, in this live and in the studio recording he also made. It's a shame, really, because I'd rate these 2 versions really higher, were they in Hungarian...

Same remark about the film version above. By the way, there could be a few more versions on video, because we only have this, and Solti and Adam Fischer's versions, both lip-synched movie versions and not staged productions, which is as usual a little unpleasant.

[Moonfish]

Yes, Nilsson is good, but it really doesn't work as well when sung in German. This music is really meant to be sung in Hungarian and a German version sounds as unnatural than in a Mozart/Da Ponte opera...
It's quite ironic that it should be Fricsay who conducted it in another language than his own, in this live and in the studio recording he also made. It's a shame, really, because I'd rate these 2 versions really higher, were they in Hungarian...

Same remark about the film version above. By the way, there could be a few more versions on video, because we only have this, and Solti and Adam Fischer's versions, both lip-synched movie versions and not staged productions, which is as usual a little unpleasant.

Yes, the German threw me a little bit as well. It is fine, but I definitely prefer the Hungarian for some reason (that at first sounded like Finnish in my ears). The Hungarian adds wonderful tonal qualities and (obviously) a sense of alienation (which may not work as well if I actually knew Hungarian).

I am looking forward to watching the Solti version as I did like the imagery in the clips I watched. I wonder why there are so few versions available and why it has not been filmed in a true staged version? Has it really been that unpopular?

[Cosi bel do]

Well, I don't really know. I can only suppose that, the work being short, it might be more difficult to market it as a lone piece on DVD or BR. But I'm quite sure there will be commercial releases of recent productions in the future.

It's quite popular with opera houses in fact... This season only, there are 8 different productions planned according to operabase.
A new production (paired with Gianni Schicchi) will be staged by Bieito, in Berlin (Komische Oper) but if filmed I doubt it will be widely released as the cast is not very appealing (well, I might still try going there anyway).
Another new production will be in January at the Met, funnily enough paired with Tchaikovsky's Iolanta, and I have no hope about it as it will be led by Gergiev... I have no opinion on the staging by Mariusz Trelinsky. It is supposed to be performed at the Polish National Opera afterwards.
Robert Lepage stages in in Toronto (with Schoenberg's Erwartung, good idea) but I don't know the rest of the cast...
Actually the production in Montpellier (a reprise) might be more appealing than one could think at first, as it will be sung by Jukka Rasilainen and Angela Denoke...
The worst pairing must be in Los Angeles : Bluebeard's Castle, then take a breath, because it's Dido & Aeneas by Purcelle

Still, there is one production you might try to find, staged by La Fura dels Baus in Paris (2007). Not great musically, but very interesting staging (and better than nothing anyway). It ran several times on TV (at least in France, on Mezzo).

[Moonfish]

Another new production will be in January at the Met, funnily enough paired with Tchaikovsky's Iolanta, and I have no hope about it as it will be led by Gergiev... I have no opinion on the staging by Mariusz Trelinsky. It is supposed to be performed at the Polish National Opera afterwards.

I came across this promotion for Gergiev's Met production/pairing:

http://www.youtube.com/v/FnBJl6kLFuY

[Cosi bel do]

Thanks to operadis, I found the Dohnanyi video (concert version) on Youtube. I had forgotten about it, never saw it, I'll check it out.

But there's more. Looking up Bluebeard's Castle on (hem...) shady websites, I found another version I had never heard of. Another movie version, but an old Soviet one from 1963, in Russian (still not Hungarian then, but better than German). Rozhdestvensky conducting the Bolshoï orchestra, filmed (after his own staging ?) by Vitali Golovin in a very expressionist style. Apparently Nina Polyakova and Yevgeny Kibkalo are singing but I have no idea if they are also acting.
I just watched a few minutes, wow, I don't think I ever heard such a tense rendition.

[Moonfish]

Thanks to operadis, I found the Dohnanyi video (concert version) on Youtube. I had forgotten about it, never saw it, I'll check it out.

But there's more. Looking up Bluebeard's Castle on (hem...) shady websites, I found another version I had never heard of. Another movie version, but an old Soviet one from 1963, in Russian (still not Hungarian then, but better than German). Rozhdestvensky conducting the Bolshoï orchestra, filmed (after his own staging ?) by Vitali Golovin in a very expressionist style. Apparently Nina Polyakova and Yevgeny Kibkalo are singing but I have no idea if they are also acting.
I just watched a few minutes, wow, I don't think I ever heard such a tense rendition.

Great resource Cosi! Thank you! There are many more versions of BC than I expected and it is interesting to notice the variety of languages used. I would not be surprised if the difficulty of Hungarian is the issue. Perhaps one could expect the Hungarian singers to be the best bet for accomplishing Bartok's vision?   

[Cosi bel do]

Great resource Cosi! Thank you! There are many more versions of BC than I expected and it is interesting to notice the variety of languages used. I would not be surprised if the difficulty of Hungarian is the issue. Perhaps one could expect the Hungarian singers to be the best bet for accomplishing Bartok's vision?

Well, yes and no. The Ferencsik 1956 version (Hungaroton) is among my favorites but Palankay (Judith) is its main weakness... Whereas Troyanos is always glorious, even if it's not her language...
Szekely is excellent though. He also sings on the (very good) Dorati recording, but he's better with Ferencsik.

[Moonfish]

I think the topic might have been better under the "Opera and Vocal" section though, maybe it could be changed...

About versions, I have said a few things about this one, unfortunately oop on CD... Do NOT miss it...

http://www.youtube.com/v/1mCiL8iyp_k

I very much enjoyed this version. You are right in regards to Troyano's voice which is hauntingly beautiful. It fits right into the Bartok soundscape. So Troyanos and Nimsgern recorded a version of BC with Boulez as well at about the same time? 

[Cosi bel do]

Exactly, and it's in the big Boulez box, or in this bargain set :

[Moonfish]

Exactly, and it's in the big Boulez box, or in this bargain set :

I have to dig it out of the Boulez big box.....
I think I have the Dorati rendition of BC in the Mercury set as well as the one with Ildikó Komlósi and Kolos Kovács (Iván Fischer with the RCO).  Unexplored treasures!!!!