The Bi-weekly Listening and Appreciation Thread: Sibelius Symp 4 [2/17/2011]

[The Diner]

The Symphony No. 4 in A minor, Op. 63, is one of seven symphonies composed by Jean Sibelius. Written between 1910 and 1911, it was premiered in Helsinki on 3 April 1911 by the Philharmonia Society, with Sibelius conducting.

Please find a copy (any copy) of this work, give it a good listen or three and come back here to comment and discuss in as much or as little detail as you see fit over the next couple weeks--and beyond! The point is for all of us to enjoy the same piece within the same time frame and to revel in the qualities that make it a classic. If you'd like to read up on it and don't have a book or liner notes that will help, just google it online and you should find plenty of information. If you find a good link, feel free to post it here for everyone else.

That's it! Happy listening.

[The next work we will be listening to and discussing for BLA purposes will be Brahms' Piano Concerto #2.]

[mahler10th]

Right then.  I didn't have much to say about the last piece, but for sure I have much to say about this.
I am looking forward to hearing all the views.  The recording I will use for this:  Jarvi - GSO
Great, can't wait!!   

[mc ukrneal]

Hmm. It's with both trepidation and excitement that I approach this work. I am not a huge fan of Sibelius - he's ok, but his work rarely elicits excitement from me. But having said that, I've never listened to the 4th, so who knows what awaits. As luck would have it, I have a version from when I bought a two-fer to hear the first symphony (Karajan on EMI).

So any links to good articles or analyses of the symphony would be welcomed if someone has any handy.

[Brian]

Well, I will say this at the outset: last week Naxos USA's Twitter account asked what the most "anti-Valentine's" music was, that is to say the most anti-Romantic music. I suggested the Sibelius Fourth and won a free CD.

I haven't listened to Sibelius, any Sibelius (!), in five weeks, but have felt a nagging desire to hear this symphony again recently. That first movement is so, so beautiful...

[Florestan]

So any links to good articles or analyses of the symphony would be welcomed if someone has any handy.

http://www.sibelius.fi/english/musiikki/ork_sinf_04.htm.

Do check the site as a whole, it's a goldmine of information,

[mahler10th]

First thing to say about this symphony is how markedly it stands out from the others in both timbre and pace.
The first time I heard it (1992) I thought an error was made, or I had the wrong album cover...this wasn't Sibelius, was it?  The symphony begins with bassoons and basses not as a prelude to the normal jovial Sibelius. This is dark, like being in a cave just as the sun is coming up.  Everything is crying with a dangerous edge, but there is something in the violins and bassoon that beckon some catharsis.
I'm not sure it ever comes though. 
The 4rth is Sibelius's version of the laws of destiny with not a hint of maudlin or reminiscence.
Andrei (Eusebius) has posted a very useful link up there to find out about this Symphony and it's musical composition from the most comprehensive and authoratitive Sibelius websites in the World.  I will keep adding wee bits here and there on this symphony over the next two weeks.   

[Opus106]

The first time I heard it (1992) I thought an error was made, or I had the wrong album cover...this wasn't Sibelius, was it?  The symphony begins with bassoons and basses not as a prelude to the normal jovial Sibelius.

Normal Sibelius is jovial?! Does all Sibelius sound like the third movement of his violin concerto?

[MishaK]

Normal Sibelius is jovial?! Does all Sibelius sound like the third movement of his violin concerto?

I wouldn't call even that 'jovial'.

[Opus106]

I wouldn't call even that 'jovial'.

But ever since I read that bit about dancing polar bears, I laugh to myself whenever it starts.

[karlhenning]

Well, I will say this at the outset: last week Naxos USA's Twitter account asked what the most "anti-Valentine's" music was, that is to say the most anti-Romantic music. I suggested the Sibelius Fourth and won a free CD.

[ indelicacy alert ]

Well, it was either that, or Zappa's "Broken Hearts Are for Asssholes" . . . .

[ shut down indelicacy alert ]

[mahler10th]

Normal Sibelius is jovial?! Does all Sibelius sound like the third movement of his violin concerto?

Well...I don't know what I mean by that either.  And there is no such thing as 'normal' Sibelius.  What I probably mean is 'big and given to melody.'  And maybe not that either.  No wonder Ormandy found Sibelius "difficult to splice."

[Brian]

[ indelicacy alert ]

Well, it was either that, or Zappa's "Broken Hearts Are for Asssholes" . . . .

[ shut down indelicacy alert ]

The co-winner was Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk.

[karlhenning]

The co-winner was Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk.

Although, of course, the composer did dedicate that score to his wife.

[karlhenning]

Why, yes, I certainly ought to make an on-topic post to this thread, and soon . . . .

Okay, I'll start by saying that, although most of what I read about this piece emphasizes the drama and struggle, what I love about this symphony is the alternation of humors . . . there is light and grace present, too, and that is every bit as much a part of the music.

[admiralackbar]

I don't have a recording of this piece yet, but I really appreciate the idea of a "bi-weekly listening and appreciation thread." Thanks for putting this together! I'll be sure to comment on the next one as the Brahms is a favorite of mine.

[The Diner]

I don't have a recording of this piece yet, but I really appreciate the idea of a "bi-weekly listening and appreciation thread." Thanks for putting this together! I'll be sure to comment on the next one!

I'm glad you like the concept.

[DavidRoss]

I've heard it said that for the conductors trained at the Sibelius Academy, the fourth symphony is like their Bible.

He had already turned away from the late Romantic excess of the first two symphonies by the time of the more classically structured third.  With the fourth I believe he really began expressing the depth and breadth of his spiritual journey in the symphonies.  He seems to have been a typical adolescent, rather self-absorbed and pleasure-driven until his bout with cancer forced him to take stock, confront his own mortality, and grow up.  The fourth is the result of his grasping toward the infinite.  It seems that those who've not made peace with our spiritual nature usually describe the ending as bleak, even despairing.  To me it seems accepting that there may be no resolution to the great questions.  Life is a journey, a quest, a questioning, a celebration, and the end is unknown.

At least that's what comes to mind at this moment!

Suggest considering the linked interviews with several renowned Sibelius conductors:  http://www.fmq.fi/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107&Itemid=122

Also, check out Michael Steinberg's comments in the clips on http://www.npr.org/programs/pt/features/sibeliussym.html

[karlhenning]

It's an unconscionably long time since I've listened to this one, so: thanks to Dave for making it the focus of the bi-weekly listen!

I've thought of (and maybe I drew the idea from somewhere, maybe I came up with it myself) the opening phrase as a slowed-down (and, like slowing down a tape, thereby plunged down to the lower register) transformation of famous contrapuntal theme from the finale of the Mozart Jupiter Symphony.

And then, to be sure, Sibelius makes that "tie-in" explicit with the oboe towards the end of the first movement.

[Sadko]

I'm interested in Sibelius' symphonies, but don't know them too well. I picked the recording with Rozhdestvensky and the Moscow Radio and Television Symphony Orchestra. I had no idea what I might write, but when listening started I had some associations, so I thought, why not write them down. Normally I wouldn't try to grasp my associations so explicitly, nor would I look for them, like for a "programme" of the music, but maybe they did catch a bit of the emotional colours of the music and my reaction to it:

A solitary human being in nature (C.D. Friedrich painting: man on mountain peak).

"Northernness"

Vast, panoramic nature

Danger? A hint of?

--

Lord-of-the-Rings-like nature: a slight uneasiness, a menace in the air

Tchaikovsky melancholy

Sweetness with a bitter note

Pain - weeping - lament

Powers swelling? Sunrise? Lament is getting more grim. Unhappiness accepted but now uttered with strength rather than weakness.

-----------------

New lively things stirring.

City life? Cars?

Gossip? - Rumours?

Something playful versus something heavy, "fate".

The "heavy"/"fate" is approaching, reaching the playful. Playful doesn't give in, but won't win.

Sorrow

Something twinkling in the distance - Unhappiness here.

---

Looking at what I wrote I could sum up: Loneliness in the world - sees its reflection in the vast nature. Pain and unhappiness, but one struggles not to succumb to it, at least one wants to retain the control to accept one's pain in "manly strength". A distant shimmer of hope/redemption? Maybe for others, not for the one here! (Or not now). The distant twinkle could also be the playful thing, being blown away by the heaviness, the last view on it: saying "you have lost me!" (Was he married? Did he have an affair? Or did he for other reasons fight against something in himself?)

[Guido]

Coincidentally I was just listening to Sibelius 4th when I saw this thread. Will post my thought later but one thing - what do we make of the ending? Rather enigmatic, no?