Job Suggestions?

[ibanezmonster]

I think Tuesday I will see if my old programming instructor had any job leads (she's how I found most of the ones I heard about) over the last several months, and then I will spend the day driving around and looking for jobs.
Here's what I can think of:
-2 libraries
-a hospital
-e-mail two resumes- first for EA Sports and the second for a position I discovered in Orlando
-whatever my teacher can think of/knows of

Also, I am learning PHP (w/SQL) and if I get good soon, I will go back to the police station where they have an IT department which deals with all of that- even though they weren't hiring when I asked nearly a year ago, you never know if it could change.


I'm not the only one to want to leave Lowe's as soon as possible... my coworker (if anyone remembers, that one hot girl that used to flirt with me all the time) is considering going to the school I went to so she can become a police officer after just 6 weeks of classes. Today, she told me that she was originally in school to become a vet because she likes animals more than people (and she's a cashier, btw), and she wants anything to get out of Lowe's- she likes the idea of carrying a gun because no one can mess with her  . (I think every day, whenever I hear her page, it gets funnier and funnier because she sounds like she is talking to a retarded baby and not enjoying it). Not sure what to think of all of that, but at least she wants to do something better than scan stuff and greet people...

[The Diner]

Professional guitar widdler.

[ibanezmonster]

Widdler? I looked it up and it said "to urinate." 

[The Diner]

(colloquial) To play guitar fast. This is generally in reference to electric guitar.

[ibanezmonster]

Well, if there were a reliable way of doing that and making money, I probably would for now...

[ibanezmonster]

Went to talk to my programming instructor, and it will probably be the last time I see her and the one remaining student who is still there that I know, because the program will be closing in 12 weeks, unfortunately.

However, she was a huge help. The way she recommended me to look for jobs helped because she gave me two important pieces of info that I didn't know- 1. I technically can say I have "1 year of experience," so that widens up the availabilities a little bit, and 2. look for IT contracting agencies- she said that their job is to basically give you a job, and when the contract is over, they try to get you another job. Before, I thought that these places only give you temporary work and then you're just screwed, but according to her, they usually get you a job not too long after your contract is up- and they start off paying over twice what I make now. We were browsing jobs online and discovered a few places like these, all in Orlando.

My steps in order to get a programming job are:
1. build a portfolio of projects I made myself- first, I will create a custom website (if not on a webserver, something that can run off my computer, at least). I've been studying PHP/MySQL/MyPHPAdmin and learning extremely quickly- I'll do something like a page that has a database table meant for custom favorites lists that where you can create your own tables- such as, for me, having a list of my favorite anime and having Title, Rank, Score, etc. and having an option to upload a photo next to the title.

Another project I should do is a C++ project using MFC, because if I want to say I'm "really good at this more than all of my other skills," it is C++- but I don't really know much MFC, so I should do something with that.

2. write a cover letter and send it in... call them, etc.

I just need to polish up my skills before I send any resumes (while building a porfolio), so I'm not sure when I'll be doing any resume-sending. But when I do, at least I'll be somewhat confident. 
(would be nice if I could quit my job, because all that time wasted at work is holding me back very much...)

[ibanezmonster]

Well, there's a job for a C++ programmer in Orlando for a contracting agency that pays $45/hour for an 11-month contract (and they have 2 open positions).    That's nearly $80,000 (not including taxes) if I worked 40 hours/week.

They also have positions open for just about every language, and they don't say they need a bunch of experience or a degree... so yeah, if I just improve my skills, within time if I focus on breaking into this, I'll be rich...

[petrarch]

Well, there's a job for a C++ programmer in Orlando for a contracting agency that pays $45/hour for an 11-month contract (and they have 2 open positions).

Just an FYI. $45/hr for contracting work in programming is on the low-end of the scale, unless they are looking for an entry-level position. For technologies in higher demand and that are easier to get into (e.g. Java, C#/.NET) regular rates vary between $80-$120/hr. A highly-skilled C++ programmer, with design and architecture skills can earn $150-$200/hr.

Agencies that subcontract will gouge your eyes out if they can.

[ibanezmonster]

Just an FYI. $45/hr for contracting work in programming is on the low-end of the scale, unless they are looking for an entry-level position. For technologies in higher demand and that are easier to get into (e.g. Java, C#/.NET) regular rates vary between $80-$120/hr. A highly-skilled C++ programmer, with design and architecture skills can earn $150-$200/hr.

Agencies that subcontract will gouge your eyes out if they can.

Quite a bit a money  ... I do need money, but I really don't know what I'd do with that much money... donate it?  lol

What do you mean "gouge your eyes out," though? Working 70 hours a week? If they did that, I'd make so much money that I could literally save up enough money so I could go through college for 4 years without even having to work, and be able to support myself in an apartment. Working that much (doing anything) would be hard, but it would be worth it if it could work out like that.

[petrarch]

What do you mean "gouge your eyes out," though?

For instance, charging the end customer $150+/hr and paying you $45/hr.

[Mirror Image]

Quite a bit a money  ... I do need money, but I really don't know what I'd do with that much money... donate it?  lol

What do you mean "gouge your eyes out," though? Working 70 hours a week? If they did that, I'd make so much money that I could literally save up enough money so I could go through college for 4 years without even having to work, and be able to support myself in an apartment. Working that much (doing anything) would be hard, but it would be worth it if it could work out like that.

Working 70 hours a week wouldn't be that great to me. I don't mind the work, I enjoy working, but working that much I would have hardly anytime for anything. Not only that but your body wouldn't be able to hold up for very long. In the long run, it wouldn't be worth it in my opinion. Plus, on top of all the physical stuff, you wouldn't be able to listen to that much classical music, which would be a travesty!

[ibanezmonster]

For instance, charging the end customer $150+/hr and paying you $45/hr.

I'm not sure I get it. If I'm making $45/hour, I'm making $45/hour! I don't see the bad in that. I do see what you say about it being such a crazy amount of difference, though (seems a little bit selfish)  . But that's so much money that you could "just get by" working just 10 hours a week. (Keep in mind my currently hourly rate is $8.61/hour, doing a job that completely sucks).

Seriously, though, good to talk to someone who knows about this stuff, my friend.  Looks like if I go down the route you've taken (and of course, make wise choices along the way) I'll end up with a job I love and tons of money. 

I just need to completely get my skills down as much as I can... sorry about asking so many questions, but when you mentioned you had to take a skills test on C++ to get your first job, what was it like? Did they sit there and watch you?  or did they give you a project to take home and tell you to work on it and bring it back? Honestly, I don't think I could do the first one, but for the second one, I probably could do a lot, since I learn really fast.

[ibanezmonster]

Working 70 hours a week wouldn't be that great to me. I don't mind the work, I enjoy working, but working that much I would have hardly anytime for anything. Not only that but your body wouldn't be able to hold up for very long. In the long run, it wouldn't be worth it in my opinion. Plus, on top of all the physical stuff, you wouldn't be able to listen to that much classical music, which would be a travesty!

This is computer programming we're talking about. You get to listen to music all day on your headphones (that's what I did in my programming class, and I think most places you can, especially if they let you work at home). And that's one of the reasons why I like programming. 

[Mirror Image]

This is computer programming we're talking about. You get to listen to music all day on your headphones (that's what I did in my programming class, and I think most places you can, especially if they let you work at home). And that's one of the reasons why I like programming. 

Make money while you listen to classical music...hmmm...where do I sign up?

[petrarch]

I'm not sure I get it. If I'm making $45/hour, I'm making $45/hour! I don't see the bad in that. I do see what you say about it being such a crazy amount of difference, though (seems a little bit selfish)  . But that's so much money that you could "just get by" working just 10 hours a week. (Keep in mind my currently hourly rate is $8.61/hour, doing a job that completely sucks).

The bad is that the value they are "adding" by being the middlemen is essentially getting a good chunk of money out of what you could otherwise get on your own. Many contractors establish themselves with their own corporations and avoid the middlemen altogether. Now, since you are just beginning, you'll just have to endure it for 5 or so years until you get some sizable experience under your belt. At that point, your resume will most likely be sufficiently attractive for solo contracting work.

when you mentioned you had to take a skills test on C++ to get your first job, what was it like? Did they sit there and watch you?  or did they give you a project to take home and tell you to work on it and bring it back?

They didn't sit there and watch me, but I had to solve a fictional business scenario in some 30 or 45 minutes. Just enough for them to see what the candidate is capable of in terms of 1) understanding of the problem statement, 2) technical approach and 3) proficiency. Just think about it: If you were to hire someone for a programming task, how would you evaluate them?

There are a number of books out there that are indicative of the kinds of "inside knowledge" that pays off having with regards to a programming language like C++. Just take a glance at books like Scott Meyers' Effective C++ or Herb Sutter's Exceptional C++ and More exceptional C++. If you master the language and its idioms enough to at least grasp and understand the rationale behind each of the concepts those books are talking about, you will be a better C++ dev than 80 or 90% of the so-called "experts". But you have to be patient and there's no better course of action than learning while doing.

[ibanezmonster]

The bad is that the value they are "adding" by being the middlemen is essentially getting a good chunk of money out of what you could otherwise get on your own. Many contractors establish themselves with their own corporations and avoid the middlemen altogether. Now, since you are just beginning, you'll just have to endure it for 5 or so years until you get some sizable experience under your belt. At that point, your resume will most likely be sufficiently attractive for solo contracting work.

They didn't sit there and watch me, but I had to solve a fictional business scenario in some 30 or 45 minutes. Just enough for them to see what the candidate is capable of in terms of 1) understanding of the problem statement, 2) technical approach and 3) proficiency. Just think about it: If you were to hire someone for a programming task, how would you evaluate them?

There are a number of books out there that are indicative of the kinds of "inside knowledge" that pays off having with regards to a programming language like C++. Just take a glance at books like Scott Meyers' Effective C++ or Herb Sutter's Exceptional C++ and More exceptional C++. If you master the language and its idioms enough to at least grasp and understand the rationale behind each of the concepts those books are talking about, you will be a better C++ dev than 80 or 90% of the so-called "experts". But you have to be patient and there's no better course of action than learning while doing.

Great info- thanks! 

[ibanezmonster]

That job that pays $45/hour wants 5 years of C++ experience, even though they don't say it online. Jobs that don't say they need several years of experience are almost nonexistent. How are you supposed to get a job when almost every single one wants years of experience, but there aren't many jobs at all that offer to give you experience if you don't have much?

It seems like the only option is to (after teaching myself everything) find entry-level programming jobs that don't specifically require "Bachelor's degree," and be open to any position in the country (given it's not "local residents only").

[Scarpia]

That job that pays $45/hour wants 5 years of C++ experience, even though they don't say it online. Jobs that don't say they need several years of experience are almost nonexistent. How are you supposed to get a job when almost every single one wants years of experience, but there aren't many jobs at all that offer to give you experience if you don't have much?

It seems like the only option is to (after teaching myself everything) find entry-level programming jobs that don't specifically require "Bachelor's degree," and be open to any position in the country (given it's not "local residents only").

You are returning to the comment I made above.  From your position you are thinking in terms of knowing a language like C++.  Knowing the language and being a "programmer" is a relatively low level job and that's why they want years of experience for a job that pays well.  Experience means knowing how to make a computer system work, using language skill, knowledge of API's, knowledge of algorithm design, understanding of the needs of the customer, etc.  That is the different between being a computer 'programmer' and a computer 'engineer'.  And that is why you need to go to a good college.  The two major categories of hire in the tech world are recruits from University and people with experience.  The way to get a job without experience is to graduate from University with a good degree and good grades.  Then you'll get experience on your first job and can look for a better job.
Not that you shouldn't look for something with your current level of experience, but know that the opportunities are qualitatively different when you have the required education.

[ibanezmonster]

You are returning to the comment I made above.  From your position you are thinking in terms of knowing a language like C++.  Knowing the language and being a "programmer" is a relatively low level job and that's why they want years of experience for a job that pays well.  Experience means knowing how to make a computer system work, using language skill, knowledge of API's, knowledge of algorithm design, understanding of the needs of the customer, etc.  That is the different between being a computer 'programmer' and a computer 'engineer'.  And that is why you need to go to a good college.  The two major categories of hire in the tech world are recruits from University and people with experience.  The way to get a job without experience is to graduate from University with a good degree and good grades.  Then you'll get experience on your first job and can look for a better job.
Not that you shouldn't look for something with your current level of experience, but know that the opportunities are qualitatively different when you have the required education.

True... but I absolutely need a different job that I like as soon as possible (preferably programming). I'm going today to try to get registered for college, but there is absolutely no way I'm going to stay at the same job for another 6 years (which is how long it often takes).

If my only option were Lowe's (or some other non-paying, awful job) for another 6 years, I would kill myself, and I'm not even kidding at all. It just isn't worth it to go on living that miserable for so long. The only sense of hope I have is when I feel like I can change this, and get out of the recurring pain that I experience so much. Depression is not a fun thing to experience- just existing becomes painful and it even sometimes gets so bad that you can feel it physically. The last 3 years have been the worst 3 years of my life (other than going to school, which was fun), and I'm not going through that again, no matter what. A couple of weeks ago, I tried to accept the possibility of working where I do through college, and for a few days, went through an indescribable depression. I guess the only way to describe it is if you witnessed firsthand your whole family getting raped and killed right in front of your eyes- that's how I actually felt. Luckily, I decided to look for stuff and give myself hope, and I felt better. I need to stick with the feeling of hope so I don't get like that any more- not fun at all.

Working on my PHP website right now... when it is done, I'll go back to the police station and hopefully one of the people in IT quit or something so there will be a position open. Also trying to call some places (there is a position that I should qualify for, though I may have to make up being "experienced with Sharepoint").

[Scarpia]

This is to motivate you to study hard:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/04/05/silicon.valley.job.market/index.html?hpt=Sbin