If I like Ives

[OzRadio]

I've been enjoying Ives' symphonies, overtures, and the Emerson concerto lately. What other composers' works might I enjoy?

[DavidRoss]

I've been enjoying Ives' symphonies, overtures, and the Emerson concerto lately. What other composers' works might I enjoy?

John Adams

[Mirror Image]

I've been enjoying Ives' symphonies, overtures, and the Emerson concerto lately. What other composers' works might I enjoy?

In terms of style, no other composer really sounded like Ives. But if you're looking for a composer with an American aesthetic, then the following composers might be right up your alley:

Copland, Barber, Adams, Bernstein, Roy Harris, Piston, Creston, Virgil Thomson, William Grant Still, William Schuman, Gershwin

Of course there are more, but these should keep you busy for awhile.

[Mr. Darcy]

John Adams

Couldn't agree more!

[escher]

John Foulds, the english Ives
Matthijs Vermeulen, the dutch Ives
Ljubica Maric, the yugoslavian Ives

[karlhenning]

Ma dov'è il Ives italiano?

[nigeld]

try this one


[asin]B000005IZ3[/asin]

[Guido]

Ruggles, Crawford Seeger

[some guy]

I think only Guido's come close to what else an Ives fan might also like.

Aesthetically, Ruggles is the closest pick so far.

Otherwise, you might find Ursula Mamlock interesting, too. Carter, of course, though he's quite precise and strict where Ives is neither. But some of that same "do lots of different things at once" sensibility.

Of the more straightforward Americans, I would think that Sessions would be a better choice than any of the others aside from Ruggles. Schuman's a fine composer, of course, as is Piston. And Thomson can do some pretty good things when he puts his mind to it. But Mr. I was born in France Varèse is very possibly more along the lines of what an Ives fan would favor.

I also like escher's idea of going outside the U.S. Henry Brant, especially some of the earlier ensemble extravaganza's like Kingdom Come and Machinations. And maybe some Zimmermann (Bernt Alois). His Requiem for a Young Poet, particularly. And Luc Ferrari's Société II (Et Si Le Piano Était Un Corps De Femme). Though, come to think of it, there's maybe quite a lot of other Zimmermann and Ferrari that you'd like. I'm just going by my own love of Ives and where it's led me.

And, to bring us back to the U.S., the one man who seems to have been silently banned from polite conversation (irony) online, John Cage. Who, if nothing else, carried on and expanded the Ivesian tradition of multiplicity, of opening up the world of music to the world of sound.

Finally, I'd like to thank OzRadio for mentioning the Ives' Emerson Concerto. I had no idea that that had been whipped into shape and recorded. That's going on as soon as I click the "Post" button. (I also picked up the Concord Symphony just now. That's an orchestration of the sonata by Henry Brant. I never even knew. And I call myself a fan. Pfffft.)

[Grazioso]

Oh, Ives... 

[DavidRoss]

John Adams's The Chairman Dances (Foxtrot for Orchestra)

http://www.youtube.com/v/7pRLyyFdDjg&feature=related

[Cato]

Charles Ives comes in various flavors!

If you want the non-hymn-folksong-collage Ives, I would think you would find the microtonal music of Ivan Wyschnegradsky and Ben Johnston and Easley Blackwoodof interest, since they went well beyond experimental etudes.

If you like the Ives of the Robert Browning Overture, you should find Karl Amadeus Hartmann
a kindred spirit. 

But one of the best composers following the spirit of the collage-style of Ives was Carl Stalling!

http://www.awn.com/mag/issue2.1/articles/goldmark2.1.html

[Luke]

Not even in My Father Knew Charles Ives (which is his most Ivesian piece by a long way, and not just in a titular way)?

[Luke]

I was just chekcing the 'Who's Online' and I saw a guest looking at the Michael Finnissy thread here, so I clicked on it for old time's sake. Good fun - that was back in the days when I had time to write long posts!

Anyway, in some of his pieces there is something Ivesian in Finnissy - in the inner complexity and in the bringing together of layers of sonic types. I wouldn't be surprised, for instance, if someone who responded to the Three Places in New England found something to like in Finnissy's Red Earth, with its deep overlapping layers of Australian outback, heat haze, scorching sand, insect buzz, searing sun, mirage, didg drones, mystery clicks and thwacks and evocatively twangling harps...

[Grazioso]

is Adams really a bold & pioneering spirit like Ives was ? Is it music with real 'balls'? Listening to his music, like the stuff just posted, I'd say hell no - it's pretty tame & dull in comparison.

It's funny to hear someone even talking about any classical music having "real balls"  Stylistic or formal adventurousness maybe, but balls no. I love classical music and have listened to it for decades, but compared to a lot of the more aggressive rock music or blues or soul or funk I've heard, it's all pretty tame, restrained, cerebral--and some would say effeminate.

[karlhenning]

But one of the best composers following the spirit of the collage-style of Ives was Carl Stalling!

http://www.awn.com/mag/issue2.1/articles/goldmark2.1.html

You're equating Ives with cartoon music.

Fatal error. Try again, James.

[karlhenning]

Not even in My Father Knew Charles Ives (which is his most Ivesian piece by a long way, and not just in a titular way)?

Do you know, I've liked the title so well, I have feared to listen to the actual piece, lest I be disappointed . . . .

[DavidRoss]

Do you know, I've liked the title so well, I have feared to listen to the actual piece, lest I be disappointed . . . .

Hesitate no longer.  Ives is obviously one of Adams's major influences and this homage is a fine piece...as is the electric violin concerto it's coupled with in the Nonesuch recording, The Dharma at Big Sur.

"But for a few years and only a little distance to the north," writes Adams, "[My father and Charles Ives] might well have met...I imagine them exchanging a wry comment in front of the town post office, or, rake in hand, lending each other some help after the first October frost." Adams describes My Father Knew Charles Ives, composed in 2003, as "a musical autobiography, an homage and encomium to a composer whose influence on me has been huge." In it, Adams paints a vivid musical picture of his personal roots as a native of rural New England, as well as his poetic roots as a son of the same quintessentially American soul as Charles Ives.

[Guido]

The Dharma at Big Sur is a much better work. My Father Knew Charles Ives is a rather aple immitation of the real thing - atmospheric like Ives but without the life... The vernacular elements are all phoney - both literally (they're not real folk/band tunes) and musically. And the whole thing is flatter than Ives' "furious silence"...

I do like Adams (maybe a quarter of the oeuvre is superb, half good, and a quarter is junky) and the piece is not bad, I just don't think it's that good either. Maybe I'm just hurt that Adams takes any oportunity to comment negatively on Ives' musical structures, which he says are weak and inneffectual. Obviously I disagree. Strongly.

[karlhenning]

. . . I do like Adams (maybe a quarter of the oeuvre is superb . . . .

Say, Guido, what three Adams pieces would you rank as crème de la crème? TIA