20th Century orchestral pieces ...

[James]

 ... you think every serious art-music lover ought to know. (in otherwords, your most cherished personal favorites in this area) For instance, my cream of the crop 20th century orchestral- works-you-have-to-know would look something like ...

Claude Debussy's La Mer for orchestra (1903-05)
Igor Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring for large orchestra (1913/47/67)
Anton Webern's Symphony Opus 21 (1928)
Bela Bartok's Music for Strings, Percussion & Celesta (1936)
Karlheinz Stockhausen's Gruppen for 3 orchestras (1955-57)
Olivier Messiaen's Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum for wind, brass & percussion (1964)
Gyorgy Ligeti's Lontano for large orchestra (1967)

All classic works! 

I'd be interested in what other members top-choice lists for 20th century orchestal pieces would look like. Try to limit it to just under 10 selections, thee best of the best. Providing a link to a choice-cherished recording of a particular piece is also welcome, just in case some of us want to investigate.

[hornteacher]

Let's see, by "orchestral" you mean for larger ensembles with doublings which rules out things like Pierrot Lunaire and the string quartets of Shoshtakovich.  So lets go with my most personal cherished favorites.

Debussy - Three Nocturnes for Orchestra
Holst - The Planets
Stravinsky - ROS
Prokofiev - Symphony 1
Prokofiev - Piano Concerto 3
Shostakovich - Symphony 5
Copland - Appalachian Spring
Copland - Symphony 3
Bernstein - Mass
Meij - Symphony 1

[Grazioso]

That's a hard bill to fill--where to begin?  As far as things "every serious art-music lover ought to know," I would steer them towards an introductory book on classical music in order to let them learn of the landmark works that are associated with major trends and composers: the usual suspects like The Rite of Spring, Wozzeck, Quatour pour la fin du temps, etc.

"Your most cherished personal favorites in this area" is going to be much harder for me since the topic is so vast. Here are some works I keep coming back to, year after year:

Debussy: La Mer
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Sibelius: symphony 2 (really, any except 6 or 7)
Bax: Tintagel
Mahler: symphony 7
Pettersson: symphony 7
Atterberg: symphony 3
Madetoja: symphony 1
Pärt: Summa
Shostakovich: piano concerto 2

[petrarch]

I'll cheat since 5 of my choices are already on your list and enumerate 10 others:
- Friedrich Cerha, Spiegel (the cycle as a whole)
- James Dillon, Helle Nacht
- Gérard Grisey, Les Espaces Acoustiques (the cycle as a whole)
- Tristan Murail, Les courants de l'espace
- Luigi Nono, A Carlo Scarpa
- Emmanuel Nunes, Quodlibet
- Wolfgang Rihm, Morphonie (tough choice between that one and Sub-Kontur, Dis-Kontur and Tutuguri)
- Giacinto Scelsi, Uaxuctum
- Edgar Varèse, Amériques
- Iannis Xenakis, Nomos Gamma (tough choice between that one and ST/48, Terretektorh and Dämmerschein)

[bhodges]

Love seeing all these lists.  The 20th century is my favorite period, so it's difficult to choose ten from hundreds of pieces, but mine might be (in chronological order):

Debussy: La Mer (1905)
* Haitink/Concertgebouw, Boulez/Cleveland (DG)

Stravinsky: Le sacre du printemps (1913)
* Muti/Philadelphia, Boulez/Cleveland

Berg: Three Pieces for Orchestra (1915)
* Levine/Met Orchestra, Levine/Berlin PO

Shostakovich: Symphony No. 4 (1935-1936)
* Haitink/Chicago, Gergiev/Kirov

Martinů: Double Concerto for Two String Orchestras, Piano and Timpani (1938)
* Belohlávek/Czech PO, Mackerras/Prague Radio SO

Bartók: Concerto for Orchestra (1943)
* Chailly/Concertgebouw, Solti/Chicago

Ligeti: Atmosphères (1961)
* Abbado/Vienna, Nott/Berlin PO

Grisey: Les espaces acoustiques (1974-1985)
* Asbury/WDR Sinfonieorchester Koln

Andriessen: Workers Union (1975)
* Bang on a Can, California Ear Unit

Murail: Gondwana (1980)
* Prin/Orchestre National de France

--Bruce

[Todd]

It's hard to keep the list so small, but here goes:

Stravinsky – Rite of Spring
Mahler – Symphony 9
Szymanowski – Symphony 3
Enescu – Symphony 3
Revueltas – Sensemaya
Shostakovich – Symphony 13
Bartok – Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta
Debussy – La Mer
Janacek – Taras Bulba
Sibelius – Symphony 7

[Sergeant Rock]

... you think every serious art-music lover ought to know. (in otherwords, your most cherished personal favorites in this area)

I'm having trouble reconciling "ought to know" with "your personal favorites." Do I really think every serious music lover should know Havergal Brian's Gothic? I'll have to think about this a bit longer before committing 

Sarge

[WI Dan]

I'm having trouble reconciling "ought to know" with "your personal favorites."

I don't know what I ought to know, so I'll just list what I like. 

Ives ............. Holidays Symphony
Ravel ............ Piano Concerto in G major
Bartok .......... Concerto for Orchestra
Sibelius ........ Symphony No. 2
Sibelius ........ Symphony No. 4
Sibelius ........ Symphony No. 5
Sibelius ........ Symphony No. 6
Sibelius ........ Symphony No. 7
Prokofiev ...... Piano Concerto No. 3
Stravinsky .... Violin Concerto in D major

[vandermolen]

Difficult and my choices tomorrow could be different, but here goes:

Sibelius: Tapiola
Vaughan Williams: Tallis Fantasia
Bax: Tintagel
Shostakovich: Symphony 4
Copland: Symphony 3
Pettersson: Violin Concerto No 2
Bantock: Celtic Symphony
Atterberg: Symphony 5
Walton: Symphony 1
Moeran: Symphony

[Lethevich]

I'm having trouble reconciling "ought to know" with "your personal favorites." Do I really think every serious music lover should know Havergal Brian's Gothic? I'll have to think about this a bit longer before committing 

Same. I am painfully aware that most of the stuff I like a lot is regarded by most as mediocre at best None the less, some more universal picks:

Debussy - Jeux
Poulenc - Concert champêtre
Kodály - Concerto for Orchestra
Honegger - Symphony No.2
Szymanowski - Stabat Mater
Martin - Petite symphonie concertante
Britten - Cello Symphony
Schnittke - Peer Gynt
Rodrigo - Concierto de Aranjuez
Nørgård - Symphony No.3

Martinů is too consistent for me to be able to pick a single one, so I will second Bruce's choice of the Double Concerto for two String orchestras, piano and timpani.

[some guy]

Unlike Sgt. Rock, I think the key here is in "serious art-music lover" not in the distinction (and important difference, I would say, not an "in otherwords"!) between "ought to know" and "cherished personal favorites."

I would hope that serious art-music lovers would already know most of the music already listed. I believe--or want to believe--that serious art-music lovers can distinguish between "important" and "favorite." I would always have said that everyone should know Boulez's Le marteau sans maître, even when I didn't particularly like it. And I would never have said that anyone needed to know Bibalo's Autunnale, even though it's a personal favorite of mine.

But these are not orchestral pieces, so on to the topic.

In addition to the things already mentioned, I would add

Maderna, Quadrivium (1969)--Sinopoli, Symphony Orchestra of the North German Radio. DG--I changed my Maderna pick. This is really a classic of twentieth century music. And this disc has Aura and Biogramma on it, too. The Maderna disc no one should be without.
Gerhard, Symphony nr. 3 (1960)--Prausnitz, BBC Symphony Orchestra, Angel LP (Bamert, BBC Symphony Orchestra, Chandos CD)--The Prausnitz has a better balance with the electronics and is a more visceral performance generally, but the Bamert is OK and a lot easier to find.
Cage, Atlas Eclipticalis (1961)--2CD set on mode. Cage conducting a version for chamber ensemble. Strauss conducting a version for orchestra (supervised by Cage)
Krenek, Horizont umkreist (1967)--Zagrosek, Radio Symphony Orchestra Wien. Orfeo
B.A. Zimmermann, Photoptosis (1968)--Zender, Radio Symphony Orchestra of Saarbruecken
Lachenmann, Air (1969, rev. 1994)--Zagrosek, State Orchestra of Stuttgart (with Christian Dierstein)
Lutosławski, Cello concerto (1970)--I have both the Jablonski and the Schiff (both with Lutosławski conducting). I prefer the Jablonski.
Klaus Huber, ...inwendig voller Figur... (1971)--Gierster, Philharmonic Orchestra of Nuremburg. Wergo
Feldman, Flute and orchestra (1978)--Zender, Radio Symphony Orchestra of Saarbruecken, cpo--This is part of a two CD set which includes Piano and orchestra, Cello and orchestra, and Oboe and orchestra as well. I can't imagine anyone who loves music not having this set already. But I suppose it could have happened.
Avet Terterian, Symphony nr. 8 (1989)--Liss, Ural Philharmonic Orchestra, Megadisc Classics--also with Terterian's symphony nr. 7. I really don't know which is my favorite, nor do I need to decide!

Well that's ten, so I guess I don't need to get into the discussion of whether the twentieth century is still going on, musically, and thus offer up pieces by Romitelli and Zych and Mulvey and Woolf for perusal.

I am surprised that no one's yet mentioned Carter's nice double concerto, though. And I'd like to mention Dittrich's Concert avec plusieurs instruments Nr. IV, Action-Reaction, and ETYM on a now out of print Wergo CD if I may. (There's one on offer at Amazon.de for 15 euros.) These are outrageously fun, especially the oboe concerto. Sweet!!

[petrarch]

Listing works is great...

but I was hoping more folks would offer top choice recordings also, things that make the case even stronger ... it was afterall, through amazing recordings of performances where i fell in love with the music in the first place - and continue to listen on a regular basis, at anytime i have available. this fetishizing of pieces so-to-speak via recordings is how 9 times out of 10 we get closer and closer to the musical works!

Good idea. I modified my entry and provided links to each of the works.

[jochanaan]

Hmmm..."Must-know" orchestra pieces from the 20th century?  Uh, right. In more-or-less chronological order:

Debussy: La Mer  (Fritz Reiner, Chicago Symphony)
Mahler: Symphony #9 (Lots of good recordings out there, but probably the Bruno Walter/Columbia Symphony wins by a nose)
Schoenberg: Five Pieces for Orchestra (I have the Boulez/BBC, but there may be others even better)
Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring  (Composer's own recording)
Janacek: Sinfonietta (Mackerras, Vienna Philharmonic)
Prokofiev: Symphony #1 "Classical"
Howard Hanson: Symphony #2 "Romantic" (composer/Rochester Philharmonic on Mercury)
Shostakovich: Symphony #5 (probably Bernstein or Haitink)
Bartok: Concerto for Orchestra (either Reiner/Chicago or the early Ormandy/Philadelphia from the '50s)
Messiaen: Turangalila (Riccardo Chailly/Concertgebouw)
Alan Hovhaness: Symphony #2 "Mysterious Mountain" (Reiner/Chicago)
Penderecki: Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima
Henryk Gorecki: Symphony #3 "Symphony of Sorrowful Songs" (Dawn Upshaw/Zinman/London Sinfonietta)

There are probably a few "must-knows" that I've missed, but I've tried to include only pieces that have the greatest historical significance.

(Some of you who know my love for Varèse may be surprised I haven't included Ameriques or Arcana, but those, while great by any standards, are actually not the pieces for which he's best known.  Ionisation, Density 21.5, and Poème Electronique are the must-knows for Varèse, and none of them are for full orchestra. )

[Brahmsian]

Two works and performances that were without a doubt, defining musical moments for me last year:

Shostakovich - Symphony No. 10 (Ormandy/Philadelphia, Sony)  Unfortunately OOP, but can still be had at ArkivMusic

Stravinsky - Petrushka (Abbado, London Symphony Orchestra, DG) 

[some guy]

I also changed my list as per James' instructions. 

[Grazioso]

Here's my revised list, too:

Debussy: La Mer (Solti, CSO, Decca--the one that introduced me to the piece)
Copland: Appalachian Spring (Bernstein, LAPO, DG)
Sibelius: symphony 2 (really, any except 6 or 7) (either Maazel, VPO, Decca or Bernstein, NYPO, Sony)
Bax: Tintagel (probably Thomson, Ulster, Chandos)
Mahler: symphony 7 (Solti, CSO, Decca)
Pettersson: symphony 7 (definitely prefer the Segerstam version on BIS over the CPO release)
Atterberg: symphony 3 (I've only heard the CPO recording from the complete set, and I could quibble over the engineering, but the music is so good, I can live with it)
Madetoja: symphony 1 (Volmer, Oulo SO, Alba)
Pärt: Summa (P. Järvi, Estonian NSO, Virgin)
Shostakovich: piano concerto 2 (Ortiz, Ashkenazy, RPO, Decca)

[jowcol]

I don't have the time at the moment to play fully here, but I'm following James' thread with interest.  I also have trouble with the notion of personal favorites vs the "important" works, and I'm not compulsive enough to collect a lot of versions of the same work, so citing specifics won't help.

James' initial list was strong (I've respected all of lists so far-- happy to see Reveultas and Moeran make the list)!   But this highlights some of the difficulties I have responding.

Okay, when I discovered Stravinsky's Rite of Spring (and before getting into Rock and Roll), I needed to listen to it daily for 2-3 years. I truly love it, and value it's importance.  But if I could only take one Stravinsky work to a desert island, it would be the Firebird, which was much less revolutionary.  Yet if I was cornered to cite my nomination for his greatest masterpiece, I'd take Les Noces.   


I think I'd take Debussy's Nocturnes over La Mer, although it was finished in December 1899, so it may be disqualified.

I'd have to include at least one minimalist work, such as Riley's In C, or Reich's Desert Music or Music for 18 musicians (if we'd call that an orchestra). 


Scriabin may have been a "dead end", but it would be hard not to put Prometheus on the list.  Actually, I'd have fun compiling a top 10 covering from 1899 to 1915 or so- that was such a rich period for orchestral music.

I love the colorists like Atterberg and Respighi-- although I wouldn't say that they pushed the envelope. 

My favorite Copeland was his Organ Symphony-- but that really didn't make the same impact of his more populist works.

For Penderecki-- I'm fondest of his choral works (St. Lukes, Utrenja, Dies Irae)-- not sure if that counts as orchestral.

Although his miniatures were typically more effective than his longer works, it's hard to for me to completely ignore Duke Ellington for some very innovative effects with a larger ensemble. 

For Webern-- if not the Symphony, the Six Pieces for Large orchestra would get my vote.

For Bartok, I'd definitely take Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta over the Concerto for Orchestra.

Okay-- I'm still rambling here.   I confess I'm having a hard time picking only 10, and trying to both capture important, representative works  that I also dearly love, and also distinguishing from the life-long favorites and those which I've had the pleasure of discovering after joining this forum.   I'm much more confused after being part of this forum, and I'm very grateful for that!

[DavidRoss]

Ives--Three Places in New England
Adams--Naïve and Sentimental Music
Reich--Desert Music
Mahler--Das Lied von der Erde
Copland--Short Symphony
Bartók--Violin Concerto #2
Sibelius--Symphony #4
Schoenberg--Verklärte Nacht
Strauss--Vier letzte Lieder
Stravinsky--Symphony of Psalms

[Mirror Image]

This is almost impossible for me to do, because the 20th Century is my favorite era of classical music (or of any music for that matter). I'm going to try to limit my list to at least 60 works with my favorite recordings of that work:

Bartok: Bluebeard's Castle - Kertesz, Ludwig, Berry, LSO, Decca
Bartok: Violin Concerto No. 2 - Kyung-Wha Chung, Solti, CSO, Decca
Bartok: Dance Suite - Boulez, NY Philharmonic, Sony
Bartok: Divertimento - Boulez, CSO, DG
Bartok: Piano Concerto No. 2 - Anda, Fricsay, Berlin Radio Symphony, DG
Bartok: Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta - Solti, CSO, Decca
Bartok: The Wooden Prince - Boulez, CSO, DG
Bartok: The Miraculous Mandarin - Boulez, NY Philharmonic Orch., Sony
Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe - Dutoit, MSO, Decca
Ravel: Piano Concerto in G major - Argerich, Abbado, BPO, DG
Berg: Lulu Suite - Abbado, VPO, DG
Berg: Violin Concerto - Anne Sophie Mutter, Levine, CSO, DG
Schoenberg: Verklarte Nacht - Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic, DG
Villa-Lobos: Choros No. 11 - Cristina Ortiz, Neschling, Sao Paulo Symphony Orch., BIS
Villa-Lobos: Genesis - Roberto Duarte, Slovak Radio Symphony Orch., Marco Polo
Mahler: Symphony No. 9 - Chailly, Royal Concertgebouw, Decca
Vaughan Williams: Symphony No. 5 - Previn, Royal Philharmonic Orch., Telarc
Vaughan Williams: The Lark Ascending - Iona Brown, Marriner, Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields
Nielsen: Symphony No. 5 - Bernstein, NY Philharmonic, Sony
Holst: The Planets - Bernstein, NY Philharmonic, Sony
Sibelius: Symphony No. 4 - Vanska, Lahti Symphony Orch., BIS
Sibelius: Pohjola's Daughter - Segerstam, Helsinki Philharmonic, Ondine
Ives: Symphony No. 4 - Tilson Thomas, CSO, Sony
Ligeti: Atmospheres - Jonathon Nott, Berlin Philharmonic, Teldec
Ligeti: Lontano - Jonathon Nott, Berlin Philharmonic, Teldec
Falla: Three-Cornered Hat - Dutoit, MSO, Decca
Martinu: Symphony No. 5 - Neumann, Czech Philharmonic Orch., Supraphon
Martinu: Concerto for Double String Orchestra - Belohlavek, Czech Philharmonic, Chandos
Barber: Violin Concerto - Hilary Hahn, Hugh Wolff, St. Paul Chamber Orch., Sony
Barber: Adagio for Strings - Thomas Schippers, NY Philharmonic, Sony
Copland: Appalachian Spring - Bernstein, NY Philharmonic, Sony
Copland: Billy the Kid - Bernstein, NY Philharmonic, Sony
Gorecki: Symphony No. 3 "Symphony of Sorrowful Songs" - Upshaw, Zinman, London Sinfonietta, Nonesuch
Adams: Naive & Sentimental Music - Salonen, LA Philharmonic, Nonesuch
Adams: Harmonielehre - Rattle, CBSO, EMI
Respighi: Church Windows - Geoffrey Simon, Philharmonia Orch., Chandos
Varese: Ameriques, Boulez, NY Philharmonic, Sony
Schmidt: Symphony No. 4 - Mehta, VPO, Decca
Prokofiev: Scythian Suite - Gergiev, Kirov Orch., Philips
Prokofiev: Symphony No. 5 - Szell, Cleveland Orch., Sony
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 10 - Sanderling, Berlin Radio Symphony, Berlin Classics
Shostakovich: Symphony No. 5 - Haitink, Royal Concertgebouw, Decca
Janacek: Sinfonietta - Mackerras, VPO, Decca
Britten: Sinfonia da Requiem - Britten,  New Philharmonia Orch., Decca
Honegger: Symphony No. 3 "Liturgique" - Karajan, Berlin Philharmonic, DG
Honegger: Pacific 231 - Jarvi, Danish National Symphony Orch., Chandos
Pettersson: Symphony No. 7 - Segerstam, Norrkoping Symphony Orch., BIS
Stravinsky: The Rite of Spring - Bernstein, London Symphony Orch., Sony
Stravinsky: Petrushka - Boulez, Cleveland Orch., DG
Stravinsky: Chant du rossignol - Boulez, Cleveland Orch., DG
Stravinsky: Apollo - Salonen, Stockholm Chamber Orchestra, Sony
Stravinsky: Symphony of Psalms - Stravinsky, CBC Symphony Orch., Sony
Revueltas: Sensemaya - Mata, Simon Bolivar Symphony Orch. of Venezuela, Dorian
Ginastera: Dances from the ballet "Estancia" - Dudamel, Simon Bolivar Youth Orch. of Venezuela, DG
Chavez: Sinfonia India - Mata, Simon Bolivar Symphony Orch. of Venezuela, Dorian
Szymanowski: Harnasie, Rattle, CBSO, EMI
Szymanowski: Symphony No. 3 "Song of the Night" - Rattle, CBSO, EMI
Szymanowski: Symphony No. 4 "Sinfonia Concertante" - Andsnes, Rattle, CBSO, EMI
Bernstein: Symphony No. 2 "Age of Anxiety" - Entremont, Bernstein, NY Philharmonic, Sony
Part: Cantus in Memoriam of Benjamin Britten - Paavo Jarvi, Estonian National Symphony Orch., Virgin Classics

[DavidRoss]

Looking more carefully at the OP, I see that I failed, if the object was to present our 10 (or fewer) most cherished personal favorites--a best of the best according to our tastes and passions.  DLVDE, Sibelius 4, and the 4 last songs would make such a list--probably--but the rest would not.  However, I chose to focus on the "listeners should know" aspect of the directions and to select pieces thus far un- or under-represented.