Henry Cowell (1897-1965)

Started by vandermolen, March 06, 2011, 01:22:15 AM

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cilgwyn

Well,fancy that! A revival.perhaps only brief,of a rather brief thread! I have just put on the Col Legno cd of Cowell's Piano Concerto & other assorted works for Piano /& orchestra & to my suprise I really AM enjoying this one. Spirited performances and top notch recording quality.Maybe old smarty pants Henry Cowell IS worth a revival of some kind after all?
Splendid stuff & I actually had this one ready for the charity shop! To my ears this is by far the best case for Cowell,I have encountered, so far and may actually get a couple of return visits to my cd player!!!

cilgwyn

I'd actually be prepared to stick up for this one.
Incidentally,I'd better check out what else I might have dumped in that 'charity' box!!!

Dundonnell

Just to say that I too have some Cowell on cd :)

Four cds in fact: an ancient American Masters cd with Symphony No.7 and Symphony No.16 "Icelandic" plus the Variations for Orchestra played by the Vienna Symphony Orchestra, the Iceland Symphony Orchestra and the Polish National Radio Orchestra(strange!), the Louisville recordings of Symphonies Nos. 11 and 15, a CPO disc of Music for Strings and the Koch cd referred to above.

I collect symphonies(as you may have noticed ;D) and I would be interested in knowing where those additional Cowell symphonies can be obtained.

Not a major composer...at least not in his 'conservative' second half...but interesting and attractive music nevertheless :)

cilgwyn

The Cowell I am referring to is entitled 'American Piano Concerto's' and is on the Col Legno label. Unfortunately,it is £15.02 from Amazon,but it may be possible to get it cheaper from a seller or some other outlet. The music is in Cowells more tuneful vein,but with some of his eccentrities & experimental techniques thrown in for good measure. While I enjoyed the entire cd on repeat mode,which is the acid test,really;probably my favourite is the Concerto Piccolo parts of which sound like someone banging their fists.repeatedly, down on the keyboard,but the orchestration is very melodic,rather gorgeous actually. I have to say that some of Cowell's music is quite enjoyable,but a bit too clever for it's own good. It's not something you come back to that often. In this case,I think Cowell's ideas really do seem to work,in the sense that they're not JUST eccentric or bizarre,the music is actually enjoyable,at times rather beautiful and fun to listen too,as well. In fact,I have no hesitation in stating that this is in my humble opinion (!) the best and most convincing Cowell cd I have heard. Although,I would like to point out that I am NOT for one moment suggesting that there are any masterpieces here. But I like it,so Oxfam won't get it!

cilgwyn

#24
I think I will put the Mode 'Dancing with Henry' cd on my list now. This contains 'Atlantis',which could easily have been entitled 'Moaning & Wailing with instrumental accompaniment',but could be a fun,what's this party piece & the samples are sufficiently intriguing,for me at least. Curiosities like this can be fun,WHEN you're in the right mood.
Or horrible,if you hate Cowell's,sometimes,admittedly,self consciously,'I'm so wacky,aren't I?',ideas!

NB: It strikes me,that a piece like 'Atlantis' could be more fun to perform in,than
      actually listen to. Also,I would get paid for wailing,moaning and beating my chest!

vandermolen

Quote from: Dundonnell on September 02, 2011, 01:18:18 PM
Just to say that I too have some Cowell on cd :)

Four cds in fact: an ancient American Masters cd with Symphony No.7 and Symphony No.16 "Icelandic" plus the Variations for Orchestra played by the Vienna Symphony Orchestra, the Iceland Symphony Orchestra and the Polish National Radio Orchestra(strange!), the Louisville recordings of Symphonies Nos. 11 and 15, a CPO disc of Music for Strings and the Koch cd referred to above.

I collect symphonies(as you may have noticed ;D) and I would be interested in knowing where those additional Cowell symphonies can be obtained.

Not a major composer...at least not in his 'conservative' second half...but interesting and attractive music nevertheless :)

Hi Colin - Symphony No 5, which I like very much, is on an old Bay Cities CD, which I think I bought, relatively cheaply, from Amazon US.
Jeffrey
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

There are new recordings of some Cowell symphonies conducted by Botstein,but only available as downloads,as far as I know.

cilgwyn

#27
Now I'm listening to the Koch cd,entitled,'Persian Set',again. Interesting,but not especially fascinating,to compare Cowell's response to 'Persia' with Koechlin's. It has to be said that Koechlin is,unsuprisingly,both more profound and less predictable. At the same time Cowell's take on Alan Hovhaness is very enjoyable & the bits where the orchestra join in the arabian night hi-jinks,with 'Eventyr' style 'shouts'  are great fun. I think my mum will enjoy this. And probably more than Koechlin,sadly!
Enjoying it though. (These Sennheiser cordless headphones are a definate bonus)).
The playing and recording quality are fantastic.

Mirror Image

#28
Quote from: cilgwyn on September 03, 2011, 08:31:39 AM
Now I'm listening to the Koch cd,entitled,'Persian Set'. Interesting,but not fascinating to compare Cowell's response to 'Persia' with Koechlin's. It has to be said that Koechlin is,unsuprisingly,both more profound and less predictable. At the same time Cowell's take on Alan Hovhaness is very enjoyable & the bits where the orchestra join in the arabian night hi-jinks,with 'Eventyr' style 'shouts'  are great fun. I think my mum will enjoy this. And probably more than Koechlin,sadly!
Enjoying it though.

Koechlin is one of most profound composers I know. His music seems to transcend time and space. Maybe others don't hear this but I certainly do. Rediscovering his music has been a life-affirming experience. I eagerly await the next addition in Hanssler's Koechlin series.

I can't say Cowell is particularly that interesting of a composer. He seems to be lumped in with Ives and Ruggles, but, to my ears, he doesn't match their greatness or originality.

cilgwyn

Okay,the Mode cd of Henry Cowell 'Dancing with Henry' has now been ordered.

cilgwyn

#30
The cd has a rave review on 'Classical Music Review'. A goldmine? Well.I b*****  hope so!!!! If I don't like Cowell's 'Atlantis' I'll probably be joining in with the wailing and ululating!

cilgwyn

Really enjoying the following Cowell cd's now:

Henry Cowell: A Continuum Portrait Vol 1 Naxos
Henry Cowell (plays Henry Cowell) Piano Music Smithsonian Folkways

Naxos's : A continuum Portrait Vol 2 has now been ordered

Finally,Henry Cowells fan club has one member.
This could boost our numbers considerably!



snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on March 07, 2011, 07:26:53 AM
I went through a Cowell discovery process. My BottomLine with Cowell is not that complimentary, but, within such a wide ranging WorksList, there will probably be something for everyone.

1) Piano Music: if you like Cage's Sonatas & Interludes, you'll like Cowell's playful experiments. One certainly cannot overlook Cowell's contribution to 20th Century Piano Music.

2) String Quartets: Nos. 1-2 are in HC's ultra dissonant style. No.3 is a mixture, from the '30s. The most famous might be No.4, United, which i have not hear. No.5 is Late, and may be very conservative.

3) Chamber Music: regardless of the instrumentation, HC's music will either be in the ultra dissonant style, or the Late, much much more conservative, Style. There are Piano Trios, of which I like Four Combinations for  (preferred version by hartley Trio). Fluffy trifles for cello and violin (Violin Sonata?) tend to be frivolous.

As a rule, HC's LateMusic is all very conservative and pretty, all written after his stint in jail. This can be slightly maddening. This music all sounds very much like Lou Harrison's more fluffy style (the two share more than their share of sounds).

I have a great Mode 2cd set called 'Mosaic', which includes a nice swathe of Chamber Music, in all his different styles. There is a Late harp quintet that is as light and gay as anything. This may be the best overall HC set out there.

HC also has a few percussion pieces from the dawn of that era, also.

4) String Orchestra: the early Adagio is in the ultra dissonant style, but the Hymn&FuguingTunes are all light. I have Koch cds of really light, 'American' sounding 'melting pots' that really do nothing for me. There is also a CPO disc of the same material

5) Symphonies: what?,... we have 17? Perhaps vandermolen got one of the good ones (No.5). I've heard a few bits here and there, and I hear a lot of HC's conservative style. I still haven't heard a very good overview of these Works, and have pretty much given up here.

6) Eclectic/Indigenous Music: the Iran and Persian musics are ok. The Japanese stuff,... eh. I just find this StoneAge,... so much more has been learned since the the advent of WorldMusic. One cannot discount HC, but I find him obsolete here. Harrison certainly took over here.


All I can say to any prospective Cowell seeker is: WatchOut!!,... there is a lot of research, but not that much reward, IMHO. The Mode set is my pick for a OneStop Cowell class. Perhaps those two Naxos discs will be enough.


7) Vocal Music: I'm not even going there...



clijwin ( ;)),... sorry, that's what you get for now, haha,... I restate my Cowell Warning not to go the full Rabbit Hole, unless of course you have an excess of cash.

Currently, we have the two Koch discs (one features the Late Concerto Grosso; the other with the Persian Set), the excellent 2cd Mode set (that's really the one you want; you can also get the (Almost) Complete SQs on a CRI re-issue), some Fienberg piano pieces (2 Argo discs),... aaand, oh yes, the preferrable (opposed to Koch) Gamut cd of Piano Trios (with Ives, Beach, and Bloch).

Arguably, this is, excepting the 'serious' Symphonic Works and more of the Piano Music, an extremely broad view of Cowell, and, lest by some temptation I seek out some Awesomely Mysterious Lost Work that I simply haven't heard, I think I can sum up Cowell as the teacher of Harrison. All of Cowell is amplified and expanded in Harrison, I believe.

1) Frankly, I remain skeptical about that ColLegno disc of Piano Concertos. Does it sound to me like you're really trying to convince yourself on this one? :-*

2) Those two Naxos discs are a grand cause, but I have encapsulated within other recordings, except the Iran piece, which I'm not as crazy about as the other, Persian, piece.

3) Piano Music? For me, it's all on YouTube if I need it;but, I still groove to it...

4) I do always hold out hope that one of the Symphonies will speak to me.


I read as much about Cowell as I could, before buying,... studying the Works List against the Discography. I found a lot of trifles and such which seem to inflate things. With such an uneven Composer, you have to be ready for a bumpy ride.

cilgwyn

#33
Funny you should mention 'the full rabbit hole'. I've just been down it via Del Tredici's 'Final Alice'. Now that's something! Or maybe it's just Barbara Hendrick's tour de force vocals! You're posts are very interesting. I was wondering when you might pop back! I quite like his music & I did listen to a few Cowell cd's a while back and then I got bored! This time they seemed to click & I have enjoyed them a little more. On the other hand,it is hard to take the man seriously. Just listening to the cd of him playing his music & some of his portentous,overtly solemn introductions. It's hard not to crack up. He just takes himself so seriously. Which strikes me as one of Cowell's main problems,if not his biggest problem. No sense of humour.
Agree with you about the symphonies & the Hymn and Fuguing tunes being his least interesting work. It seems to me that Harrison and Hovhaness did this sort of thing a bit better. Mind you,Hovhaness (and I do like SOME of his music) probably should have stopped after No1! (I do quite like No 8!) To be fair the performances are all pretty ancient & some of them probably aren't very good,but whether they are worth the time and effort of a really good orchestra and conductor is probably open to debate. Though I doubt if many people are going to bother. I quite like No 11 in small doses!
I did rather enjoy the Col Legno cd this time around,I'm afraid. The best item for me was the 'Concerto Piccolo',but I certainly wouldn't take the cd,with me,to a desert island,even if I could play it,except perhaps to eat on!
As to the Persian set cd. I do quite like this,because it's the only Cowell cd where HC seems to show any kind of humour at all. This is light music and it is hard to believe that Cowell was trying to do anything ground breaking here. On the other hand, knowing how seriously HC took himself by now,I'm not exactly suprised! In fact,If I had been able to meet Cowell,which is of course impossible,I would have had only two words to say to him,"Lighten up!" (Maybe a whoopee cushion under his cushion or some laughing gas would help,IF he knew how to laugh!)
To be fair to me snyprrr,while I do quite like some of his music & he's 'quite' an intriguing ego centric (and I DO feel ALLOT safer knowing he's dead!),my 'bumping' of this not exactly popular composer thread HAS been largely tongue in cheek.

PS: Thanks for the cd recommendations!!!


snyprrr

Quote from: cilgwyn on September 04, 2011, 02:30:42 PM
Funny you should mention 'the full rabbit hole'. I've just been down it via Del Tredici's 'Final Alice'. Now that's something! Or maybe it's just Barbara Hendrick's tour de force vocals! You're posts are very interesting. I was wondering when you might pop back! I quite like his music & I did listen to a few Cowell cd's a while back and then I got bored! This time they seemed to click & I have enjoyed them a little more. On the other hand,it is hard to take the man seriously. Just listening to the cd of him playing his music & some of his portentous,overtly solemn introductions. It's hard not to crack up. He just takes himself so seriously. Which strikes me as one of Cowell's main problems,if not his biggest problem. No sense of humour.
Agree with you about the symphonies & the Hymn and Fuguing tunes being his least interesting work. It seems to me that Harrison and Hovhaness did this sort of thing a bit better. Mind you,Hovhaness (and I do like SOME of his music) probably should have stopped after No1! (I do quite like No 8!) To be fair the performances are all pretty ancient & some of them probably aren't very good,but whether they are worth the time and effort of a really good orchestra and conductor is probably open to debate. Though I doubt if many people are going to bother. I quite like No 11 in small doses!
I did rather enjoy the Col Legno cd this time around,I'm afraid. The best item for me was the 'Concerto Piccolo',but I certainly wouldn't take the cd,with me,to a desert island,even if I could play it,except perhaps to eat on!
As to the Persian set cd. I do quite like this,because it's the only Cowell cd where HC seems to show any kind of humour at all. This is light music and it is hard to believe that Cowell was trying to do anything ground breaking here. On the other hand, knowing how seriously HC took himself by now,I'm not exactly suprised! In fact,If I had been able to meet Cowell,which is of course impossible,I would have had only two words to say to him,"Lighten up!" (Maybe a whoopee cushion under his cushion or some laughing gas would help,IF he knew how to laugh!)
To be fair to me snyprrr,while I do quite like some of his music & he's 'quite' an intriguing ego centric (and I DO feel ALLOT safer knowing he's dead!),my 'bumping' of this not exactly popular composer thread HAS been largely tongue in cheek.

PS: Thanks for the cd recommendations!!!

I'm getting into a sentimental, CRI type mood now, haha!

Do look into that Mode set, though.


btw- any perceived Cowell proclivities would probably be celebrated today. :( No one is safe!! :o

cilgwyn

If he was around today he'd  probably be playing a piano in the Celebrity Big Brother House.
Nobody would have a b***** clue who he was!

Sandra

I heard Bartok sent him a letter asking if he could use clusters in his music. What a gentleman Bartok was! I wish I could read the actual letter. So many references to it, not a single quote.
"Pay no attention to what the critics say... Remember, a statue has never been set up in honor of a critic!" - J. Sibelius

cilgwyn

And the great Bela Bartok had to ask Henry Cowell!!!
I hope he got a nice polite letter back.

Sandra

Quote from: cilgwyn on September 05, 2011, 11:31:47 AM
And the great Bela Bartok had to ask Henry Cowell!!!
I hope he got a nice polite letter back.

I think Cowell invented the way clusters are notated, and since it was a new invention then, I can see why Bartok might have wanted to check with the inventor. 
"Pay no attention to what the critics say... Remember, a statue has never been set up in honor of a critic!" - J. Sibelius

cilgwyn

#39
Well,suprise,suprise! I'm not the ony person in the world who ISN'T bored stiff by Henry Cowell. I have just discovered that HC has now got his own very posh looking website. The Official Henry Cowell website,complete with a nice big photograph of HC with his pet cat on the welcome page. I like cats! Not a huge amount of information on there,compared to say,the Bax or Brian websites (how do you beat that?),but it is new,apparently,and,hey, you've got to start somewhere,haven't you? Unfortunately,I couldn't put a b***** site up like that if you paid me. Well,actually,come to think of it,if I WAS paid,maybe I could come up with something,it just depends how much. Enough to buy a new car or a house with a stream running through the garden,a swimmimg pool,my own recording studio,personal symphony orchestra complete with professional musicians & conductor, a bit of land,and an indoor toilet.
Either way,having a website is definately a plus point for a composer. And,who knows,maybe things are finally going to start to look up again,for Henry Cowell. Maybe,in the next few months or years to come, this thread will reach 124 pages & every ticket for a Prom concert of a Cowell work will be sold within 24 hours,a double decker bus will get named after Henry Cowell,a famous rock band will start sponsoring recordings of his music,a range of designer clothes will be launched,a ship will be named after him,the first manned rocket ship to Mars will be named 'The Mars Henry Cowell Expedition' and I will change my name by deed poll to Henry Cowell only to discover, after a visit to a hypnotist,that I was William Havergal Brian in a former life!
Who knows?