Henry Cowell (1897-1965)

Started by vandermolen, March 06, 2011, 01:22:15 AM

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cilgwyn

#40
I digress!
There we are,Henry Cowell DID get there first! On something,anyway. (He WAS a bit of a pioneer in SOME ways). Tone Clusters? I wonder if you can get copyright out on something like that? I don't expect so;but IF Cowell invented them,and he'd been able to copyright them,he could have probably made a heck of a lot of money out of the little blighters. In fact,every one who ever wanted to use them would have had to pay Henry a fee to use tone clusters.
There would have been allot of grumpy,hard up,Henry Cowell hating, composers!
Mind you,if you had to pay to use tone clusters would you really want to use them? If I was a composer and I wanted to use tone clusters & somebody wrote to me and said,'Sorry mate,but I own the copyright on those tone clusters',I'd probably only write compositions that didn't have any tone clusters.
But,that's just me!

cilgwyn

The two Henry Cowell cds,ordered appropriately,from a US seller,finally arrived today (Naxox vol 2 & 'Dancing with Henry' Mode). My one man resuscitation of the extremely popular Henry Cowell thread continues with a vengeance!
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Dax

Cowell didn't "invent" the note cluster of course.

For those who are interested, https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/handle/1887/15093 will reveal an excellent thesis on Extended Piano Techniques by Luk Vaes. Essential reading on such matters.

cilgwyn

He invented short threads.
Thanks Dax!

vandermolen

#44
Am listening to Symphony No 3 now - the best Cowell work I know. It's a bit like McPhee's 'Tabuh-Tabuhan' at the start and it has a lovely slow movement.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

snyprrr

Quote from: vandermolen on September 16, 2011, 02:56:39 PM
Am listening to Symphony No 3 now - the best Cowell work I know. It's a bit like McPhee's 'Tabuh-Tabuhan' at the start and it has a lovely slow movement.

ahhhh,... that 'Pacific' sound? I'll check that out.

cilgwyn

If this Cowell thread gets to Page 4 I'll eat my hat!

Dundonnell

Quote from: cilgwyn on September 17, 2011, 01:49:33 PM
If this Cowell thread gets to Page 4 I'll eat my hat!

Henry Cowell is the only Western composer to have a symphony given its first performance in Madras.

Funnily enough it was his Symphony No. 13 which is titled "Madras" ;D ;D

There...I am keeping it going for you ;D ;) :D

Dax

Quote from: cilgwyn on September 17, 2011, 01:49:33 PM
If this Cowell thread gets to Page 4 I'll eat my hat!

OK. We got the message. You have a certain amount of scorn for the works of Henry Cowell.
I have to disagree. I do regard him as a major composer and one of the least recognised of the 20th century. Amongst the huge amount that he wrote, I've not encountered much duff stuff either from his experimental or less experimental side.

Symphony no 13 "Madras" is on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjDR4hAETZg

as is an impressive late orchestral piece Ongaku.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR4o1qfvDPs

cilgwyn

#49
Actually,no,if you look at my earlier posts & thank you for the links. I hope I DO have to eat my hat,but,hopefully,only metaphorically. It was purely a tongue in cheek reference to some of the earlier posts. In fact,I have just been enjoying the Mode cd 'Dancing with Henry',of which, 'Atlantis',the last item on the cd, is particularly entertaining. (In fact,I think I'll go and have another listen). It's nice to 'meet' a supporter'. In my view,any composer who seems to generate the flak Cowell does,must have something going for him.
Incidentally,I wish Botstein would make some 'physical' cds of Cowell,instead of just downloads,and that some of the deleted Cowell cds would be reissued. Hopefully,Mode and Naxos might continue their exploration of this intriguing,albeit sometimes,frustrating composer (and that's often the performances).
Again,thanks for the link & here's to Page 4!

cilgwyn

#50

By dinasman at 2011-09-18

This is the reverse of the Mode 'Dancing with Henry' cd,giving all the track details. The front has a dancing lady on it! An enterprising label,I will have another look at their website after dinner.

cilgwyn


By dinasman at 2011-09-18

And here's another one I enjoyed. Although,only after I'd listened to it three or four times,then it,mysteriously,seemed to 'click,as these things sometimes do. The performances sound excellent (to me,anyway) and they are recorded in very good sound. The Mode cd is the one to start off with,though. Unfortunately,the earlier,2cd Mode set,has been deleted! :( 

snyprrr

All this Harris talk made me troll the Amazon again. I think I'm going to go for the two cds of Symphonies, and the Music 1957/Synchrony. I think Dundonnell Posted about these earlier... will check.

cilgwyn


mc ukrneal

Quote from: cilgwyn on September 17, 2011, 01:49:33 PM
If this Cowell thread gets to Page 4 I'll eat my hat!
Maybe you can buy an edible one! :)
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

cilgwyn

Quote from: mc ukrneal on February 05, 2012, 04:48:56 AM
Maybe you can buy an edible one! :)
Uh-oh! Well,spotted! Actually, I think they DID make some,once!
The ony one I've got at the moment is a rather chewy looking balaclava. (I always take it off before going into the bank!!!)
With a bit of luck,the moths will have got there first!

snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on March 07, 2011, 07:26:53 AM
I went through a Cowell discovery process. My BottomLine with Cowell is not that complimentary, but, within such a wide ranging WorksList, there will probably be something for everyone.

1) Piano Music: if you like Cage's Sonatas & Interludes, you'll like Cowell's playful experiments. One certainly cannot overlook Cowell's contribution to 20th Century Piano Music. There is also some Harpsichord Music. I'm not sure about guitar or harp, but I think Lou Harrison overshadows on both.

1A) Piano & Violin Music: I believe there are four pieces(?), including the Suite, the Sonata, a Hymn & Fuging Tune, and perhaps an Air (?). They are all on a 'Complete' cd.

1B)...Cello...: There is the early Sonata (which hasn't got all favorable reviews; I haven't heard it (they say it sounds juvenile)), and a few anniversary pieces, and a solo piece ('Vigorously & Gravely'). I believe all pieces are fairly available. There might be a DUO for violin & cello, but I can't think of why.

1C) Piano Trio: Koch has a cd of all PTs (plus other bits I believe), which I think amount to three(?).



2) String Quartets: Nos. 1-2 are in HC's ultra dissonant style. No.3 is a mixture, from the '30s. The most famous might be No.4, United, which i have not hear. No.5 is Late, and may be very conservative.



3) Chamber Music: regardless of the instrumentation, HC's music will either be in the ultra dissonant style, or the Late, much much more conservative, Style. There are Piano Trios, of which I like Four Combinations for  (preferred version by hartley Trio). Fluffy trifles for cello and violin (Violin Sonata?) tend to be frivolous. Special mention should be made of the set of Hymn & Fuguing Tunes for different combinations of instruments, up to orchestra (I think).

3A)The Quartet Romantic is for 2 flutes and 2 strings. There's the 6 clarinet pieces. There's an oboe piece on a Crystal recital (is it the Hymn& Fuguing Tune, or something else?). There's probably a few other pieces for the other instruments, but I don't think we'll find much substance: at 700 pieces, there must be a lot of small stuff, no? The Woodwind Quintet is one such piece.


3A II) Brass Music: there's a Hymn & Fuguing Tunes for brass ensemble, and I believe one for three trombones.

3B) There's a harpsichord Quintet of the Naxos disc, and there's a harp Quintet on the Mode set.

There's the Set of Five, Persian Set, and Homage to Iran. I don't know how many ensemble works we get here in the trio-quintet-octet range, but the aren't many 'famous' things, so, maybe, if we just look at what's available, and have a Complete Works List, I'm sure we can fill in the blanks in our heads, no? We probably don't need to even scour too far. But there are the pieces Ensemble (including the 'Adagio' (with 'thunderstick')), Polyphonica, 36 Simultaneous Mosiacs, a few of the Hymn & Fuguing Tunes, and the other pieces mentioned previously. That sounds like the beginning of a portrait.

As a rule, HC's LateMusic is all very conservative and pretty, all written after his stint in jail. This can be slightly maddening. This music all sounds very much like Lou Harrison's more fluffy style (the two share more than their share of sounds).

I have a great Mode 2cd set called 'Mosaic', which includes a nice swathe of Chamber Music, in all his different styles. There is a Late harp quintet that is as light and gay as anything. This may be the best overall HC set out there.


3C) Percussion: HC also has a few percussion pieces from the dawn of that era, also. Pulse, Return




4) String Orchestra: the early Adagio is in the ultra dissonant style, but the Hymn&FuguingTunes are all light. I have Koch cds of really light, 'American' sounding 'melting pots' that really do nothing for me. There is also a CPO disc of the same material

5) Symphonies: what?,... we have 17? Perhaps vandermolen got one of the good ones (No.5). I've heard a few bits here and there, and I hear a lot of HC's conservative style. I still haven't heard a very good overview of these Works, and have pretty much given up here.

5A) Piano Concertos: There's a disc of about 4-5 different concertante works. I can't off hand think of ANY OTHER CONCERTOS; can you help me here?

5B) Other Orchestral Music: Music 1957, Synchrony, various orchestrated suites like the American Melting Pot, and so forth, and what seems like a bewildering array of pieces called Air (there's one for violin and one for sax).
There might be pieces called 'Chorale' or Fiddler's Jig, or all kinds of things like that.



6) Eclectic/Indigenous Music: the Iran and Persian musics are ok. The Japanese stuff,... eh. I just find this StoneAge,... so much more has been learned since the the advent of WorldMusic. One cannot discount HC, but I find him obsolete here. Harrison certainly took over here.





All I can say to any prospective Cowell seeker is: WatchOut!!,... there is a lot of research, but not that much reward, IMHO. The Mode set is my pick for a OneStop Cowell class. Perhaps those two Naxos discs will be enough.

I have two Koch discs (one has the Late Concerto Grosso, which sounds very Middle Ages to me), the Mode set, and some other, random, pieces (that Piano Trio, 4 Combinations, I like). I have, more than once, really tried,... TRIED to get to the bottom of Cowell, but I truly think his personal life overshadowed his talent. Whatever happened,... or,... whatever proclivities he might have had,... seem to me to have caused a reaction in his music. He just got so,... fake?,... writing all this 'pretty' music so as not to make any further waves? I don't know, but it sure seems as if that were the case. His LateMusic certainly has no testosterone. btw- he was quite the looker as a young man,... quite the typical gay WestCoast look as an elderly man. Perhaps he was just a Cat Lady in drag? I find Cowell a tragedy. :( Perhaps I've opined too much here,... I'm not seeking a gay debate, however interesting the 'manly' sounds of Ives and Ruggles might compare to the more 'feminine' sounds of Cowell, Harrison, etc.,... CRI certainly poisoned me against this whole topic, oy vey!! ::) ok, just disregard the last paragraph! ;D 8)

I added to this Post.

cilgwyn

Cowell and Harris? I like that! ;D
Cowell's muse was certainly the more varied of the two. I can't see Harris contemplating A Persian Set,let alone a 'Homage to Iran! :o
In his worst nightmares,perhaps?!!!
A true patriot to the (very) bitter end!



snyprrr

JUST AN UPDATE. AT THE COWELL SITE )OOPS) there is a list that runs almost 1,000 pieces. I went through this thing, and, pretty much, MOST of the GOOD STUFF is available. I think, ultimately, Cowell may have up to three (maybe four) modes of operation, and we should probably stop worrying if there are a load of undiscovered masterpieces. As I said, if one cleaned out the Amazon, one would surely surely have a pretty exact portrait of HC. Perhaps there are some rarer expressions that one might find curious (Ballad for ww quintet; Gravely and vigorously for cello on JFK's assassination), but they're out there.

I just finally listened the the Suite and Sonata for violin and piano, and wow!, THERE was some 'classic' HC I'd not heard before. And the Set of Five is a nice proto pacificism.

And the Piano Concerto disc is on YT, and that too tickled my ear.

Now I really want to hear Symphony No.5, that vandermolen liked.


I'm starting to get a soft spot for ole Henry.

snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on March 01, 2012, 07:50:21 PM
JUST AN UPDATE. AT THE COWELL SITE )OOPS) there is a list that runs almost 1,000 pieces. I went through this thing, and, pretty much, MOST of the GOOD STUFF is available. I think, ultimately, Cowell may have up to three (maybe four) modes of operation, and we should probably stop worrying if there are a load of undiscovered masterpieces. As I said, if one cleaned out the Amazon, one would surely surely have a pretty exact portrait of HC. Perhaps there are some rarer expressions that one might find curious (Ballad for ww quintet; Gravely and vigorously for cello on JFK's assassination), but they're out there.

I just finally listened the the Suite and Sonata for violin and piano, and wow!, THERE was some 'classic' HC I'd not heard before. And the Set of Five is a nice proto pacificism.

And the Piano Concerto disc is on YT, and that too tickled my ear.

Now I really want to hear Symphony No.5, that vandermolen liked.


I'm starting to get a soft spot for ole Henry.

I was hoping someone would engage me here. :'(