GMG Consensus: Who was the greatest composer of the 20th century?

[James]

Just some mild entertainment here .. You know how for certain eras of the western art music legacy there are usually a few that really stand out well ahead of the rest .. for instance, for the Baroque era Bach .. the classical era Beethoven .. the romantic era Wagner .. just as quick one name examples off the top of my head; but what about the last century. Out the 'major' 20th century composers, if you had to pick 'one' as being overall the greatest, who would it be?

[PaulSC]

Carter

[Philoctetes]

Part

[westknife]

'Greatest' is of course meaningless. Most history books would probably say Stravinsky in terms of influence/impact, or Schoenberg possibly, but few would argue that the latter produced anything close to the best 20th century music. My favorite 20c composer to listen to is easily Shostakovich.

[ibanezmonster]

For me, Prokofiev.

[Air]

What kind of question is this?

I can only tell you who I personally feel is the greatest - and even with that I need at least 20 to suffice:

Tier 1 - Schoenberg, Messiaen, Bartok, Prokofiev, Stravinsky
Tier 2 - Ligeti, Shostakovich, Varese, Webern
Tier 3 - Berg, Scriabin, Janacek
Tier 4 - Ives, Villa-Lobos, Stockhausen, Cage
Tier 5 - Vaughan Williams, Britten, Xenakis, Penderecki, Carter

Of course, Debussy and Ravel too, as composers that bridged the two centuries.

[Mirror Image]

This is just impossible for me to answer. I can only give you 16 favorites of mine:

Stravinsky
Bartok
Ravel
Vaughan Williams
Janacek
Villa-Lobos
Debussy
Schoenberg
Berg
Sibelius
Shostakovich
Nielsen
Part
Prokofiev
Szymanowski
Dutilleux

[jochanaan]

I don't see how we will ever reach consensus!  But my nominees are:
Arnold Schoenberg
Edgard Varèse
Olivier Messiaen

[Sid]

Piazzolla, his music has a bit of everything...Baroque counterpoint, jazz, avant-garde plus the great Argentinian tango! What more could you want?

[Mirror Image]

Piazzolla, his music has a bit of everything...Baroque counterpoint, jazz, avant-garde plus the great Argentinian tango! What more could you want?

I'm surprised you didn't pick Varese since he's your favorite composer.

[Sid]

I'm surprised you didn't pick Varese since he's your favorite composer.

Well I was kind of thinking more of a composer who kind of defines the great plurality and diversity of the c20th. & also one who kind of marries so-called "high" and "low" art, the serious & not so serious. Schnittke was another one like this. Some people have already mentioned Varese, so I thought I'd give Piazzolla a guernsey (I also think that as a chamber musician and composer, Piazzolla was second to none)...

But yes, as you said earlier this is an "impossible" question. The serious writers on music would probably opt for those kinds of names mentioned above...

[some guy]

Hahaha, good one.

Since it's James who started this thread, no one will dare say one particular name, even if they think he really is the greatest.

No one but me.

And even though I agree that "greatest" is a stupid word, putting the real, tangible value of composers on the level of sports figures or pop stars, I would say that the most influencial composer of the twentieth century, the one who clearly changed the whole rule book, as it were, was John Cage.

James will do his usual Tourette's routine that the word "Cage" triggers, but "Oh well." I think of James, now, as a little bug. That I will crush. Under my foot. On the sidewalk. Without compunction. (Well, maybe a little compunction. Eugh. If I actually did do that, I'd have to buy a new pair of shoes.)

[Brian]

Ha, consensus!

I choose Shostakovich. No, wait: Karl Jenkins

[val]

Between Debussy, Stravinsky, Schönberg and Bartok, the choice will depend on personal taste. Each of them would deserve the distinction.
To me, Debussy was the greatest piano composer. Stravinsky composed the absolute masterpiece of the century: Rite of Spring. Bartok composed the best Concertos and string Quartets of the Century. Schönberg composed Moses und Aron snd several supreme works in almost all kinds of music, from choral music and Lieder to symphonic and chamber music.

So, between Debussy's piano Images, Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, Bartok's 5th Quartet or Schönberg Moses und Aron, a choice seems irrelevant.

[mahler10th]

Stravinsky.

I can't believe someone said John Cage either.  How fantastically ill informed.  This is about music , not pretense.

[Florestan]

In terms of importance and influence, Schoenberg and Stravinsky share the honor.

In terms of personal taste, Rachmaninoff and Shostakovich. 

[mc ukrneal]

Cage would not be my choice, but as the question says 'greatest' without any guidance, Cage is a resonable choice. He was/is a very influential composer, regardless of what you think of his music. That his name creates such extreme reactions is evidence of that. His influence on other composers is clear and that extends to genres outside of classical, which few classicial composers have done. In this sense, Cage is great.

So if we talk about 'great' to mean influential, historically important, etc., Cage would be a reasonable choice though I think Shoenberg and Stravinksy would be one of the two I picked in this category.

If by 'great' we mean 'good music', well I'd look elsewhere personally. It would be composers more in the vein of Puccini, Rachmaninov, Gershwin, Grainger, Elgar, etc. that would make such a list. And if we extend this further to film music, there are dozens more we could potentially add.

But without an agreed upon meaning for 'greatest', this boils down to who you like most and whatever criteria you want to use to justify your choice. In this, I rather like Sid's response. Agree or disagree, he gives a good rationale for his choice, some of which I had not considered myself when thinking about the question. Thanks Sid!

[Luke]

Only a truly delusional person would pick Cage.

Well, I guess that would explain why your beloved Stockhausen thought enough of Cage to invite him to lecture at Darmstadt in 1958, and was influenced enough by indeterminacy to become estranged from Boulez etc about it all. Mind you, that was back when Stockhausen wasn't quite so delusional, wasn't it?   

[Josquin des Prez]

The 20th century is too broad a category, and too front loaded. With people like Mahler, Debussy, Bartok or Stravinsky in the first quarter alone makes this a very tough competition for composers working after the war.

[Josquin des Prez]

This is about music , not pretense.

Its all about pretense in this forum. Have you been living under a rock? Most of the answers in this thread have little to do with the actual music and everything to do with ideology. Its about showing how eclectic and open minded ones own tastes are, especially towards modern trends, which are still not readily accepted and therefore require further support. Orwell got it wrong. The most efficient system of social engineering is not one which has the best brainwashing tools, but the one which convinces people to do their own brainwashing. Is not the government agent you have to look out for, but the conscientious citizen who's actually motivated by the best of intentions.