William Schuman (1910-1992)

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Has anyone heard A Song of Orpheus for cello and orchestra? This is a great work IMHO.

[TheGSMoeller]

Has anyone heard A Song of Orpheus for cello and orchestra? This is a great work IMHO.

Found it on Spotify, listening to it now. First listen.

[Mirror Image]

Found it on Spotify, listening to it now. First listen.

I think the performance I own of it is merely adequate. I could imagine a better conductor and cellist getting more out of it, but we're lucky to have what we have I suppose.

[listener]

will put on tomorrow,maybe - Rose, cello  Cleveland O.    Szell
Same performance?

[TheGSMoeller]

I think the performance I own of it is merely adequate. I could imagine a better conductor and cellist getting more out of it, but we're lucky to have what we have I suppose.

I listened to the Naxos recording.

That sums it up for me, John, I thoroughly enjoyed the first 3-5 minutes, but afterwards lost some interest, the cello seemed to aimlessly continue on, although there was some lovely supportive harmonies from the orchstra. Perhaps it could be the performance, a tad more of an emotional statement would go a long way.

[Mirror Image]

will put on tomorrow,maybe - Rose, cello  Cleveland O.    Szell
Same performance?

No, this is from a Naxos recording with the RTE National Symphony Orchestra.

[Mirror Image]

I listened to the Naxos recording.

That sums it up for me, John, I thoroughly enjoyed the first 3-5 minutes, but afterwards lost some interest, the cello seemed to aimlessly continue on, although there was some lovely supportive harmonies from the orchstra. Perhaps it could be the performance, a tad more of an emotional statement would go a long way.

I could imagine more of a sustained intensity being projected throughout the work. This will give it more emotional weight I think.

[Mirror Image]

I'd like to call up Gerard Schwarz and ask him why didn't he conduct all of Schuman's concerti? I mean WTF?

[Mirror Image]

One thing that I enjoy about Schuman's music is that unlike Harris, Barber, or Copland, there is a darkness that runs deep through his music perhaps not New England Triptych or Variations on 'America', but works like Judith, parts of Symphony No. 3, Symphony No. 8, Symphony No. 9, Song of Orpheus, all of these have an ominous sound to them. Critics writing reviews on Shuman's music always seem to love to use the word "optimism" when describing Schuman's music but this word has very little to do with the actual music in my opnion. This music isn't optimistic, I think it is pessimistic, bitter, and quite pithy but the bright surface sheen suggests otherwise. I suppose this is why I struggled with Schuman at first because I wasn't quite sure of what to make of the music even though it was direct with it's expression. I just found that I was missing something, but, now, I feel like I understand his style more. Hopefully, the book I have coming will reveal more about his music. One thing I have always admired about Schuman and this was from the very start was his honesty and you might say his stubbornness to ignore trends and what's currently hip in music. He reminds me of another favorite composer in this regard: Michael Tippett.

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Has anyone heard Lorin Maazel's performance of the 7th with the Pittsburgh Symphony? I've heard it surpasses Schwarz.

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I let my Dad make a copy of the Albany recording I was raving about many days ago and he listened to it the other day. I asked him what he thought about Schuman, he had never heard any of his music, and his reply was "What an awesome composer!" He then followed this up with "What else do you own by him because I want to make copies of everything you own." My Dad being a former trumpeter probably relates to the music because Schuman always wrote stupendous brass parts. The first work he heard was Credendum and the first movement of this work bombards the ear with heavy brass and percussion.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Critics writing reviews on Shuman's music always seem to love to use the word "optimism" when describing Schuman's music but this word has very little to do with the actual music in my opnion. This music isn't optimistic, I think it is pessimistic, bitter, and quite pithy but the bright surface sheen suggests otherwise. I suppose this is why I struggled with Schuman at first because I wasn't quite sure of what to make of the music even though it was direct with it's expression. I just found that I was missing something, but, now, I feel like I understand his style more.

I agree with your assessment. It was precisely the bitter aspects of the music (that arid, harsh sound) that put me off him for a while. But I learned to like it. I don't think the 3rd Symphony falls into that category though - it's a piece bursting with energy and indeed a feeling of optimism.

What we really need is for the major American orchestras to re-discover him. I like him quite a bit more than Barber or Copland.

[Mirror Image]

I agree with your assessment. It was precisely the bitter aspects of the music (that arid, harsh sound) that put me off him for a while. But I learned to like it. I don't think the 3rd Symphony falls into that category though - it's a piece bursting with energy and indeed a feeling of optimism.

What we really need is for the major American orchestras to re-discover him. I like him quite a bit more than Barber or Copland.

The only thing most American orchestras are concerned with right now seems to be money, so which is why they continue to trot out the workhorses day by day, year by year. We need major US orchestras playing Schuman, but there needs to be a conductor who is more than up to the challenge. As for the 3rd, yes, I do think it's an optimistic work, but there are parts of it, like I said, that don't sound this way at all, but this may just be my own ears.

[Karl Henning]

Interesting, gents.  I don't characterize that aspect of the sound as dark, nor as bitter. I find it bracing, and to that extent, can pretty much nod in agreement when it is generally characterized as optimistic.

Wonderful how we hear the same music in such curiously different ways, wot?

[TheGSMoeller]

The only thing most American orchestras are concerned with right now seems to be money, so which is why they continue to trot out the workhorses day by day, year by year. We need major US orchestras playing Schuman, but there needs to be a conductor who is more than up to the challenge. As for the 3rd, yes, I do think it's an optimistic work, but there are parts of it, like I said, that don't sound this way at all, but this may just be my own ears.

This is very true, but they have to in order to survive.

But yes, seeing Ives, Schuman, even a Piston or Diamond piece in the repatoire would be nice.

How would you compare other Shuman pieces to Song of Orpheus, considering I found it quite droll and lacking emotion, but found his style unique enough to possibly explore more.

[Karl Henning]

Interesting, the Song for Orpheus he wrote some 15 years after the Violin Concerto, and about the same time as the Eighth Symphony. (Just thinking out loud . . . .)

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How would you compare other Shuman pieces to Song of Orpheus, considering I found it quite droll and lacking emotion, but found his style unique enough to possibly explore more.

Song of Orpheus isn't a work I found lacking anything. The only thing I found lacking is the performance which didn't serve it well. I would imagine that a renowned cellist and conductor could bring a lot of emotion out in the work. There emotion is there, the performers just didn't find it. There is emotion in every one of his works that I've heard thus far. That's the one thing I can count on Schuman for is being emotionally direct.

Let this be your first Schuman recording:

[asin]B0000029XY[/asin]

It can bought very cheaply through Amazon Marketplace.

[TheGSMoeller]

Interesting, the Song for Orpheus he wrote some 15 years after the Violin Concerto, and about the same time as the Eighth Symphony. (Just thinking out loud . . . .)

Shhh, you're thinking too loud. 

Is that an indication to a change in style with Schuman's compositions?

[Dundonnell]

The Maazel performance of the Schuman 7th is a good one. Say what you like about Maazel-and many have - he was prepared, at least when he was a bit younger, to perform some American music. The issue today seems to be that few conductors at the helm of American orchestras appear to be interested in the music of Schuman, Piston, Diamond etc.
Perhaps JoAnn Falletta in Buffalo might take up the banner, or David Allan Miller in Albany-he has certainly shown a lot of interest in American composers of that generation.

I cannot say that I personally find much in Schuman's 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th symphonies which could be described as "optimistic". Powerful, eloquent, sombre, grim, tragic, violent.....yes, all of these but the bracing optimism of the early Schuman does not really reaappear for me until his 10th symphony, a somewhat unsuccessful return to aspects of the earlier style.

[TheGSMoeller]

Song of Orpheus isn't a work I found lacking anything. The only thing I found lacking is the performance which didn't serve it well. I would imagine that a renowned cellist and conductor could bring a lot of emotion out in the work. There emotion is there, the performers just didn't find it. There is emotion in every one of his works that I've heard thus far. That's the one thing I can count on Schuman for is being emotionally direct.

A recording which I think you should is this one:

[asin]B0000029XY[/asin]

It can bought very cheaply through Amazon Marketplace.

And that's what I mentioned earlier, perhaps a better performance would suit better...because there were elements of the piece that interested me.

This is a disc I've seen many times in years past, and I've enjoyed many of Bernstein's American-born composer recordings on Sony.