William Schuman (1910-1992)

Started by vandermolen, June 26, 2007, 11:43:55 PM

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snyprrr

Quote from: karlhenning on April 08, 2013, 08:03:31 AM
snypsss, you out there?

Have you heard the Schuman third quartet?  Any thoughts?


It's fine. You can't go wrong with either the VoxBox (you actually need that for the Session No.2, and a host of other fun stuff) or the HarmoniaMundi, which has the really wonderful No.5, and the recording has a burnished to that'll make you pee when you hear the viola! No.4 has not been recorded. >:D

Karl Henning

Man, I hate peeing when I hear the viola . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

snyprrr

Quote from: karlhenning on April 10, 2013, 11:19:52 AM
Man, I hate peeing when I hear the viola . . . .

it all depends :laugh:...

snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 29, 2010, 09:22:27 PM
I'm most impressed with "Symphony No. 4" and "New England Triptych." I'm less enthusiastic about the other works I've heard, but I still have Symphonies Nos. 7 and 10 to hear. One of the things that I'm not impressed with is the lack of motivic development in his music. There seems to be an almost academic dryness that permeates much of the music. "New England Triptych" was an enjoyable work, but the themes were not his own. It seems when the melodies aren't his own, he's able to find something unique and creative to say. He's a great orchestrator --- anyone with ears will be able to detect this just within a few measures. It seems he's spent a great deal of time thinking about which section is going to play this or what section will be playing that. "Symphony No. 4" was particularly enjoyable for me. As it's slow movement is probably the most honest emotion I've heard in any of his symphonies so far. The melody line just aches with sadness and loneliness.

Symphony No.4 (1941)

Even though I would probably consider it Schuman's weakest Symphony, No.4 is still so good that I'm tempted to pair it with Piston's 2nd. With its three delineated movements, it also looks like a Piston.

Surely no one can forget the plaintive opening, with, is that a cor anglais? I'll just call it the low-boe(!), but, isn't it such a perfect Shostakovian opening, all brooding basses? Then, the melody is augmented with other instruments, and the familiar Schuman harmonizations are heard. Is there ANYONE who has not been touched by this wonderful Symphonic Opening? Is there a Symphony that starts like this?,... DSCH 10 is like it but ratcheted up a few notches. Still, the opening to this music is what's always brought me back here.

And, yes, the slow movement is Schuman's most delectable, though I need to check No.5 again. The Finale, too, is very well characterized, and every time I hear it I'm pleased to remember all the little bits.

So, I still tend to think of this as a Piston work, and, as such, it's wonderful. I'd compare it to other Composers, but not to Schuman himself. Huh.


We now have three recordings:

1) Lousiville/Whitney (1959?)

2) Naxos (w/No.9)

3) Miller/Albany

Of course I'm sure EVERYBODY either has or is familiar with the Whitney. I was just re-hearing, and, is the newer, First Edition release at a lower wattage than the original Albany (was it Albany or CRI?)? I really had to crank it up, but then of course the climaxes were a bit loud. Either way, it's definitely from 1959! One can hear a gaggle of woodwind clicks-and-clacks that is at once humorous and distracting. Still, there is a searing intesity that might just be lacking from the other two.

I had the Naxos, but couldn't stand the No.9 (don't ask), though I remember still liking No.4 a lot. I have listened to the samples of Miller, and he seems to milk the Symphony for all its worth, but I wonder if the intensity is still there? The music needs a solid recording, but doesn't need to be coddled. Still, if I want to pass Whitney, which should one go for: Naxos or Miller/Albany?


I tried making it through the Thread for some comment on No.4, and MI's Post was the first I got to, so I can't remember if there's been discussion yet, but, would you like to chat No.4?

Like I said, it may be his weakest, but it's still as good as many others' finest efforts. I think it's quaintly appealing in a 1941 kind of way. And you?

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: snyprrr on May 18, 2013, 07:54:02 AM
Symphony No.4 (1941)

Even though I would probably consider it Schuman's weakest Symphony, [typically creative review snypped].

Thanks for this. I've never heard the 4th. BTW, I spotted at my local vinyl emporium a copy of the Schuman 7th, conducted by Abravanel. Worth getting?

QuoteI think it's quaintly appealing in a 1941 kind of way. And you?

That's one of the things I like about Schuman's music. It makes me think of big cars with tail fins, men in fedoras, and Edward Hopper paintings.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Karl Henning

Have I yet listened to the Fourth?

Lemme put her on, and see if I recognize her.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

I like it very well; and I think Schwarz and Seattle come through nicely.

Quote from: snyprrr on May 18, 2013, 07:54:02 AM
[ ... ]

Like I said, it may be his weakest, but it's still as good as many others' finest efforts. I think it's quaintly appealing in a 1941 kind of way. And you?

The piece does the composer more than mere credit.  Ought to be programmed!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

snyprrr

Quote from: karlhenning on May 21, 2013, 08:15:18 AM
I like it very well; and I think Schwarz and Seattle come through nicely.

The piece does the composer more than mere credit.  Ought to be programmed!

I think it, and No.5, remind me of Piston. I listened again to that whole Albany disc of Piston 4, Schuman 6, and Harris 7. I love the giant slab of the Schuman 6: perhaps it's his first 'Late' Work?,... it has a lot of what becomes standard in 7, 8, & 9.

(Schuman's) 4 & 5 definitely belong to the earlier era, in this respect. Even No.3 seems more 'advanced' than 4 or 5, but, as I said, 4 & 5 are two of Piston's greatest, haha! I'm not saying there's 'weakness',... his later work is just so much more advanced.




snyprrr

Symphony No.7

The winds are given such cooling and thick icy chords here, following 6's lead. This whole Symphony to me sounds like a massive 'American' Symphony of post-WWII character, very Industrial sounding. If No.6 is a 'Requiem for the 20th Century', then surely No.7 is affirmation.

I have always loved the Mazaal(?), though I chose the the Abramavel(?) over the icy and delicious NewWorld sound. I would probably be willing to get the NewWorld back, and I'd surely like to hear the Naxos.

Some say No.7 is predictable Schuman (and know nothing Reviewers at Amazon trash him), but I love it verve, and the wonderful brass. It was written in 1960 for Boston's 75th. It's one of the last pre-JFK American Symphonies; it's sentiments I find wonderfully nostalgic.

I'm starting to like Schuman and Sessions equally, like two sides of a coin.

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: snyprrr on May 21, 2013, 06:38:53 PM
Symphony No.7

The winds are given such cooling and thick icy chords here, following 6's lead. [enticing description snypped]

Is this as good or interesting as the 6th in your view? If so, I'll have to pick up that Abravanel (assuming nobody has scooped me on that).
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

snyprrr

Quote from: Velimir on May 22, 2013, 07:44:48 AM
Is this as good or interesting as the 6th in your view? If so, I'll have to pick up that Abravanel (assuming nobody has scooped me on that).

Short answer: No, but...

6 has its own special thing which makes it so good. Obviously every Symphony can't be the top-of-the-mountain, otherwise there'd be no sides or valleys. Like I said about 4: if all you heard were 4, and I said it was the 'weakest', you'd be pretty impressed, no? Same here. 7 is not 6, BUT!...

The 'cooling, icy' stuff IS what 7 is made of, though, and, in a way, it's solid, expansiveness is what rocks me. With the sonics of the NewWorld (I still prefer Abramavel), the music sounds like the delicious wave of icy coolness that you get when you open your freezer door on a hot day! OF COURSE!, this is ME speaking,... anyhow, the coolness I feel here is perfected in the introductions to both 8 & 9 (the 'mining' sound).

7 reminds me of Florida: flat, tropical Americana,... humid with afternoon storms outside, cool air conditioning inside,... the people of 1960 (when it was written) playing in the park by the beach,... Dragnet,... oh, I'm drifting,...

If 6 was written in 1949, and 7 in 1960, think about how Schuman's 'American Imagery' changed over the course of the '50s. If 6 was valedictory, 7 bursts on the scene in fully recovered vigor. Sure it's 'just' Schuman, but it's Schuman invigorated with the idealism of the '50s (soon to be crushed with JFK, etc.,...).

I feel like I'm overstating my case, but, for me personally, this Symphony is the epitome of pre-JFK sentiment that really speaks to the naivete of the 'American Dream'. I would DIG for the tragedy in this one,... I'd pair it with Harris's 3rd!! :o

Karl Henning

Cooling, icy reminds you of Florida? (Just checking . . . .)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Cuing up the Seventh even now . . . .
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: snyprrr on May 22, 2013, 08:50:15 AM
the music sounds like the delicious wave of icy coolness that you get when you open your freezer door on a hot day!

Well, that sounds wonderful now that we're heading into summer.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

snyprrr

Quote from: karlhenning on May 22, 2013, 09:07:13 AM
Cooling, icy reminds you of Florida? (Just checking . . . .)

Air conditioned car looking at scenery!!

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

snyprrr

Undertow
Night Journey
Judith


I don't know how much I'm liking this 1959 recording of 'Judith'. Is it the music or mono sound I don't like? (First Edition FECD-0011) I haven't heard 'Undertow' (EMI) or 'Night Journey' (CRI).

Schuman has a LOT of minor celebratory pieces that I'm not even interested in. The Ballets,... what do you like?

snyprrr

Does anyone have both RCA and Naxos on the 10th? Thoughts?

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Quote from: snyprrr on May 22, 2013, 09:22:11 AM
Undertow
Night Journey
Judith


I don't know how much I'm liking this 1959 recording of 'Judith'. Is it the music or mono sound I don't like? (First Edition FECD-0011) I haven't heard 'Undertow' (EMI) or 'Night Journey' (CRI).

Schuman has a LOT of minor celebratory pieces that I'm not even interested in. The Ballets,... what do you like?

Judith in the Naxos box I find beautiful.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot