William Schuman (1910-1992)

[Karl Henning]

Hm, what's up with his withdrawing the later ballets, Voyage for a Theatre (1953) and The Witch of Endor (1965)?

[snyprrr]

Solamente Naxos here.

I only have RCA. Listened again. Any sound issues I had were corrected with the volume knob!

That's a BIG slow movement!

[snyprrr]

In Praise of Shahn
To Thee Old Cause

I'm curious about that Bernstein/Sony. Anyone on these pieces?

[lescamil]

I've heard In Praise of Shahn, which is excellent. I don't know the other one, though. Hard to be disappointed with Schuman's programmatic works, though.

[snyprrr]

I've heard In Praise of Shahn, which is excellent. I don't know the other one, though. Hard to be disappointed with Schuman's programmatic works, though.

I'm having trouble locating Song of Orpheus, Schuman's cello 'concerto'. This seems to be the rarest piece so far???... heard it?

[Karl Henning]

I'm having trouble locating Song of Orpheus, Schuman's cello 'concerto'. This seems to be the rarest piece so far???... heard it?

Yes! in this 'un:

[asin]B001BLR7C6[/asin]

It's a beauty.

[Karl Henning]

I especially like the dialogue between the oboe and the soloist near the start; a big horn declamation a little ahead of the midpoint; and the writing for the soloist is expert . . . for all the BIG passages, he always gives the soloist space.  The man was a master of the orchestra.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Symphony No.7

The winds are given such cooling and thick icy chords here, following 6's lead. This whole Symphony to me sounds like a massive 'American' Symphony of post-WWII character, very Industrial sounding. If No.6 is a 'Requiem for the 20th Century', then surely No.7 is affirmation.

I went ahead and got that Abravanel on vinyl. First listen last night.

I'm not hearing that refrigerator-door icy coldness you talk about. It does sound very industrial though. I would say this is a less focused work than the 6th, but more so than the 8th (which I've never managed to like). More listens needed to come to a verdict.

[Dashiell2007]

Coming a bit late to the party. But here are a few thoughts about Schuman and particluarly the 3rd Symphony.
This is my second attempt to come to terms with some Schuman. I was obviously not the the right mood last time as I can't stop listening to him over the past 2 weeks. I've been going through a 20th century American phase and Schuman has hit a nerve. I have listened to all the symphonies but keep returning the the 3rd in Bernstein's recording.
I find it interesting that at the time of it's premiere many people an trouble accepting it as a true symphony due to it's baroque influence and particularly it's section titles.
Personally I was most drawn to it because of the titles. I find composers who seem to attempt to fuse elements of different eras most intriguing.
In the case of this symphony it seems to work particularly well. Just because each section has a baroque starting point does not make it unsuitable as a symphonic movement. Indeed there is much in the symphony that shows the continual development of material that has become the norm for 20th century symphonic writing.
Indeed the fact that Schuman uses baroqie forms to contain this developmental process seems to me the essence of a symphony.
There are so many wonderful moments within this symphony but I would like to highlight just a few.
The opening building of tension as the passacaglia subject is introduced at a higher pitch each time is wonderful and creates a very expectant opening.
The moment in the fugue when the rest of the orchestra stops leaving just a polyphonic texture of woodwind I find breathtaking.
The wonderful section in the toccata scored for woodwind playing a modal medlody with rhythm provided by snare drum with the snare off is my favourite moment. I can't quite tell why but it seems to drag us back in time and I love it.
I'm intrigued by the section in the toccata for strings which is in effect a cadenza for the whole string section. Very unusual and very striking. Particularly the pizzicato chords. It sets up the final chase to the end brilliantly.
Well, there are just a few reasons why I like Schuman at the moment.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

In the case of this symphony it seems to work particularly well. Just because each section has a baroque starting point does not make it unsuitable as a symphonic movement. Indeed there is much in the symphony that shows the continual development of material that has become the norm for 20th century symphonic writing.
Indeed the fact that Schuman uses baroqie forms to contain this developmental process seems to me the essence of a symphony.

I agree with this. The combination of baroque forms and modernistic style is one of the things that makes this piece so impressive (new wine in old bottles).

Meanwhile my own Schumanistic exploration is continuing. I got hold of the old LP with A Song of Orpheus, played by Leonard Rose with Szell/Cleveland. A very nice work, lyrical but with enough grit to keep things interesting.

BTW the flip side is Barber's Piano Concerto, which sounds quite aggressive and Bartokian, very unlike his popular Violin Concerto. I think I prefer the PC, in fact.

The interesting thing about this album is that both composers are playing against type: Barber more modern and dissonant than usual, and Schuman more restrained and romantic than usual.

[lescamil]

BTW the flip side is Barber's Piano Concerto, which sounds quite aggressive and Bartokian, very unlike his popular Violin Concerto. I think I prefer the PC, in fact.

The interesting thing about this album is that both composers are playing against type: Barber more modern and dissonant than usual, and Schuman more restrained and romantic than usual.

Barber's Piano Concerto has always been a huge favorite of mine. I've always liked harsher Barber more than romantic, gushy Barber. Give me the Piano Concerto and 3rd Essay over the Violin Concerto and symphonies any day.

[kyjo]

Let me just put a plug in for Schuman's music. He is one of my favorite American composers, and, in my view, one of the greatest symphonists of the 20th century. I love the exciting rhythmic drive and dark emotional intensity of his music. Symphonies 3-5, the Violin Concerto and the New England Triptych are vigorous, immediately appealing works which first made me fall in love with Schuman's music. The later symphonies are tougher nuts to crack, having passages of dense dissonance, but they have a craggy power which was revealed to me on subsequent listenings which is very powerful. And boy, did Schuman write some great timpani parts! Just listen to the Toccata from Symphony no. 3 or the second movement of the VC and you'll see what I mean! I really wish someone would resurrect the withdrawn first two symphonies to give us a better picture of Schuman's development as a composer.

[Mirror Image]

Good to see another Schuman fan! I love all those works you mentioned, but I also love Credendum, Prayer in Time of War, Night Journey, Undertow, among others.

[kyjo]

I also love Credendum, Prayer in Time of War, Night Journey, Undertow, among others.

As do I I just didn't feel like listing out all the Schuman works I love because I love so many of them

[Mirror Image]

As do I I just didn't feel like listing out all the Schuman works I love because I love so many of them

Certainly!

[lescamil]

Don't forget Schuman's Piano Concerto, which is a sadly overlooked work of his. He shows that he can write with more economical forces and still give great support to the soloist. His usage of bitonality in the middle movement is particularly beautiful, and the angular themes in the outer movements are among his most infectious that he has written. This work needs to be revived, and it could use another recording, not that there is anything wrong with John McCabe and Gary Steigerwalt's recordings (the latter is my preferred one).

[kyjo]

Don't forget Schuman's Piano Concerto, which is a sadly overlooked work of his. He shows that he can write with more economical forces and still give great support to the soloist. His usage of bitonality in the middle movement is particularly beautiful, and the angular themes in the outer movements are among his most infectious that he has written. This work needs to be revived, and it could use another recording, not that there is anything wrong with John McCabe and Gary Steigerwalt's recordings (the latter is my preferred one).

Another fine Schuman work, that. I really enjoy its interesting use of counterpoint and elements of jazz.

[snyprrr]

I went ahead and got that Abravanel on vinyl. First listen last night.

I'm not hearing that refrigerator-door icy coldness you talk about. It does sound very industrial though. I would say this is a less focused work than the 6th, but more so than the 8th (which I've never managed to like). More listens needed to come to a verdict.

You say 'industrial',... I'm probably getting the 'refrigeration' image from that same place,... 'Objective' instead of 'Subjective',... hence, the 'distance',... the 'coldnees'. I suppose we agree, just different descriptions for 'Objective'??

But, I was thinking, and this 'industrial' piece really does come across as a perfect 'Corporate' Music of the '50s, when America was bustling. I wonder what it would sound like TODAY??, haha... uh?

[Mirror Image]

Dear Mr. Schwarz,

Will you for the love of all things musically good please go back into the studio with the Seattle Symphony and record the ballet Undertow? I'm begging you!

Sincerely,


John

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I was at this concert last night:

Chicago Symphony Orchestra
Leonard Slatkin, conductor
Anne Akiko Meyers, violinist
Barber: School for Scandal Overture
Schuman: Symphony No. 6
Bates: Violin Concerto
Gershwin: An American in Paris

The whole concert was great, but this being the Schuman thread, I'm going to restrict myself to the performance of the 6th Symphony. Slatkin gave a brief talk about the piece, with "what to listen for" examples played by the orchestra. He also made a statement in favor of playing not only more Schuman but also other composers of his period and ilk (Piston, Mennin, Hanson and the like). With that, I can heartily agree.

The performance was excellent. There was some great solo work from flute and timpani, indeed from pretty much every part of the orchestra, with the brass giving their usual industrial-strength efforts. Slatkin's control over the structure was solid throughout, with a very strong feeling of buildup especially in the second half towards the desperate-sounding climactic peaks and valleys before the whole thing subsided into a chilly ending.

One interesting thing I noticed was the clash of orchestral sections in some parts, overlapping and contending in rhythm, which had a sort of proto-Elliott Carter sound. This was one of the things Slatkin had highlighted in his preliminary examples.

The sold-out audience was very enthusiastic about this tough but great American symphony. I was sitting in my favorite place behind the orchestra, and got the full force of brass and percussion. Could a Schuman revival be in the works? One can only hope.