Are you disturbed?

[karlhenning]

No matter how many times I've heard the piece over the decades (and this is essentially 'talking about myself', if you like), I can remember almost as if it were yesterday how pumped I was upon hearing Le sacre the first time (which was not as part of Fantasia, a film I . . . well, still have not ever seen, though I have seen separately the L'apprenti sorcier segment).

I reacted strongly, positively, and enduringly to the dense polyphonic clatter which develops in between the statements of that plaintive opening bassoon tune; to the sliding low clarinets accompanying the first statement of that tune; to the eight-horn rhythmic punctuations of that fabulously F^b/E^b₇ chord in the Danse des adolescentes, to the seductive quintuple-meter 'vamp' in the Rondes printanières . . . I could just go on and on: every musical event in the ballet grabbed me by the elbow straight off, and I thought it was the most wonderful piece of music I had ever heard in my life.

Whenever I listen to it again, I am apt to be confirmed in that feeling.

[jochanaan]

Karl, how old were you?  I was eighteen and had never heard anything like it before--the closest analogue was hearing Varèse's Ionisation, Densité 21,5, and Poème Electronique in high school music appreciation--and like you, my first exposure was not via Fantasia; it was the composer's own recording from the early 1960s.  (The Stokowski/Philadelphia performance in the movie is, by contrast, distressingly noisy and sloppy.)  Two things captured my heart and mind at once: the vibrant dissonances and the asymmetric, always-shifting rhythms.

On further acquaintance, what fascinates me is how alone Le sacre stands.  It's neither Impressionist, nor atonal, nor serial in any way, nor anything like Dada or early musique concrète or any other musical movement of the last century.  Even among its composer's other works it is utterly unique, hardly at all like IS's earlier ballets and nothing like the Neoclassical works he began to compose immediately afterwards.  (Of course, its rhythms have entered every subsequent composer's bag of tricks, but as one element among many.)  Stravinsky himself paid tribute to its uniqueness: "I am the vessel through which Le sacre passed."

[DavidW]

which was not as part of Fantasia, a film I . . . well, still have not ever seen,

Karl you're missing out!  It had some great stuff, and the sequel had DSCH as well as another Stravinsky piece!

[Grazioso]

This thread inspired to me to listen to the Rite again for the first time in quite a while, in this case the composer's recording.

Some thoughts and impressions:

* What strikes me more than any violence or volume is just how pretty and delicate and tuneful much of it is; Stravinsky had a delightful harmonic and melodic sense. The keening bassoon opening alone is priceless. (I was chuffed to see a wind chime that can reproduce it: http://www.chimes.com/p-219-woodstock-rite-of-spring-chime.aspx )

* Textures during some of the quieter sequences sometimes sound vaguely baroque.

* One of the most striking structural elements is the repeated, rapid alteration of themes with similar character--a sort of call-and-response--particularly during the more aggressive sequences. That's an interesting alternative to both traditional thematic development and traditional opposition of themes of markedly different character. It's a good way to call to mind the give-and-take of primitive combat, with tribesmen rushing back and forth.

* The combination of churning rhythmic shifts, heavy syncopation, and staccato motifs gives the work a great groove--and I use that term because that's all more reminiscent of jazz than any classical music I know of from that period or earlier. I defy someone not to bob their head or tap their foot to this piece.

* Second intro: what planet did that come from? Creepy, disturbing, alien music.

* How much of the score has been ripped off for TV, etc.? I shudder to think.

* All that bass clarinet. Eric Dolphy, where did you go? 

[karlhenning]

* Second intro: what planet did that come from? Creepy, disturbing, alien music.

Comes from Debussy, in some ways. Think Nuages.

[Grazioso]

Comes from Debussy, in some ways. Think Nuages.

Good call. Here, fwiw, is Uncle Boulez conducting the part of the Rite in question:

http://www.youtube.com/v/dn_PGrl5vYg

[karlhenning]

Well, and since Debussy borrowed a leaf from Musorgsky for Nuages, we could almost say this was a ball that bounced back home to Russia . . . .

[MDL]

No matter how many times I've heard the piece over the decades (and this is essentially 'talking about myself', if you like), I can remember almost as if it were yesterday how pumped I was upon hearing Le sacre the first time.

Hear, hear. I vividly remember picking up Solti's CSO recording from the school library when I was 13 (33 years ago), wondering what it might be like, and being utterly, totally blown away by it. I've been obsessed by it ever since.

[Scarpia]

I also recall listening to Zubin Mehta's LA Phil recording at a tender age and being blown away.  But it has not resulted in a life-long obsession.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Hm, a trend. I bought the Boulez/Cleveland recording in high school (on a spiffy "half-speed mastered" LP: this was about 1981). I was likewise blown away. But I have not become obsessed with it, and rarely listen to it nowadays.

[Sid]

I don't find it disturbing or challenging now, nor did I particularly when I first heard it at about age 11 (a teacher at primary school played it to us while we were doing some free/improvised dancing ). I then got a tape recording of it & remember listening to it many times on my walkman (now that shows my age!). So it did appeal to me to a great extent. But back then, it affected me just like any other music that I was then hearing for the first time, whatever the composer. I have always been interested in hearing music of composers which I have never heard, particularly the major composers, and it's the same right up until this day more than 20 years later. I hardly listen to The Rite these days, but I'm still hearing new (to me) works by Stravinsky - eg. recently I got a 2 disc set including his Soldier's Tale, Octet, Septet, etc. & they've been a joy...

[jowcol]

Okay, I'm disturbed, but I loved Le Sacre the first time I heard it, and I must confess I listened to it daily for nearly two years-- it scratched an itch that nothing else could touch.

[jowcol]

On further acquaintance, what fascinates me is how alone Le sacre stands.  It's neither Impressionist, nor atonal, nor serial in any way, nor anything like Dada or early musique concrète or any other musical movement of the last century.  Even among its composer's other works it is utterly unique, hardly at all like IS's earlier ballets and nothing like the Neoclassical works he began to compose immediately afterwards.  (Of course, its rhythms have entered every subsequent composer's bag of tricks, but as one element among many.)  Stravinsky himself paid tribute to its uniqueness: "I am the vessel through which Le sacre passed."

Strange, but I feel the same way about Les Noces-- I think it is Stravinsky's other great masterwork.

[karlhenning]

Karl, how old were you?  I was eighteen and had never heard anything like it before--the closest analogue was hearing Varèse's Ionisation, Densité 21,5, and Poème Electronique in high school music appreciation--and like you, my first exposure was not via Fantasia; it was the composer's own recording from the early 1960s.  (The Stokowski/Philadelphia performance in the movie is, by contrast, distressingly noisy and sloppy.)  Two things captured my heart and mind at once: the vibrant dissonances and the asymmetric, always-shifting rhythms.

On further acquaintance, what fascinates me is how alone Le sacre stands.  It's neither Impressionist, nor atonal, nor serial in any way, nor anything like Dada or early musique concrète or any other musical movement of the last century.  Even among its composer's other works it is utterly unique, hardly at all like IS's earlier ballets and nothing like the Neoclassical works he began to compose immediately afterwards.  (Of course, its rhythms have entered every subsequent composer's bag of tricks, but as one element among many.)  Stravinsky himself paid tribute to its uniqueness: "I am the vessel through which Le sacre passed."

I was already an antique, jo, I was 21 ; )

[karlhenning]

Strange, but I feel the same way about Les Noces-- I think it is Stravinsky's other great masterwork.

Yes, I am as fervently committed to Svadebka, have been for years. Yet, for whatever passel of reasons, the first recording I owned thereof put me off that work for several years.

[Superhorn]

   In my horn-playing days I actually did play aperformance of Le Sacre,back in the 80s with a now defunct orchestra called the Queens Philharmonic at Queens College,C.U.N.Y.  The conductor was none other than Joann Falletta, before she became a big name. 
   It sure is tough to play !  Managing  the constant shifts in time signature,particualry the final section , is enough to make a musician dizzy !
   By co-incidence, I also got to know Le Sacre as a teenager with the Mehta/LA  LP ages ago.  It's not so much chalenging or disturbing to listen to as exhilerating !  Unfortunately , Stravinsky never wrote anything as thrilling to hear after it, although he did write some  very god works, such as Les Noces, The Rake's Progress, Oedipus Rex, the symphony in 3 movements, Symphony of Psalms andf the violin concerto etc.

[jochanaan]

I was already an antique, jo, I was 21 ; )

Obviously not too "antique" to be totally pumped!

[jochanaan]

   In my horn-playing days I actually did play aperformance of Le Sacre,back in the 80s with a now defunct orchestra called the Queens Philharmonic at Queens College,C.U.N.Y.  The conductor was none other than Joann Falletta, before she became a big name...

That must have been an experience!  I heard Ms. Falletta live once or twice in Denver in the 1980s when she led the Denver Chamber Orchestra.  An exciting conductor even then.