Hello everyone!

[Marc]

Hi everybody. Sandra from Oregon checking in. I've been browsing this forum for a while and finally decided to register and participate.
I'm a big fan of Russian composers (as well as some American and European composers)... and I spend a lot of time to listening to music.

As far as my background, I've studied some basic composition and I can play several instruments reasonably well for an amateur.

Hope to continue enjoying this site.

Welcome, Sandra!

I do find it weird that internet forums are male dominated. There should be a scientific study explaining why. When you go to a classical music concert, you don't see less women than men. But the forum online are a different story.

Maybe you will find the answer yourself pretty soon ....

Hi. Welcome aboard. I am also a big fan of Russian Composers, Prokofiev is my avatar. Are you familiar with scale degree 3-1-4-2? Does it sound familiar? In the key of G minor, it is Elgar's enigma (pi).

My guess is, after reading this: Nimrod, your gender must be male.

I'm glad you're fascinated by that. I'd rather listen to Elgar's wonderful work without bothering with what he did for self-amusement.

Are you by any chance female?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Welcome, Sandra! I hope you enjoy yourself here! Greetings from Delft, The Netherlands.

[nimrod]

Welcome, Sandra!

Maybe you will find the answer yourself pretty soon ....

My guess is, after reading this: Nimrod, your gender must be male.

Are you by any chance female?

I am male.  As a retired engineer, I am probably overly fascinated with mathematics, proofs, and science in general.  However, no one enjoys listening to classical music more than I.  I enjoy puzzles, riddles, and detective stories (with interpreting evidence and all.)

[Marc]

I am male.  As a retired engineer, I am probably overly fascinated with mathematics, proofs, and science in general.  However, no one enjoys listening to classical music more than I.  I enjoy puzzles, riddles, and detective stories (with interpreting evidence and all.)

Hi Nimrod, no harm intended.

I just read Sandra's intro about men and music forums and your response was, IMO, a beautiful 'proof' of her observation.

I'm male, too, and I have experienced many times, after listening to music, that my need to talk about the concert/performance/recording and try to give some analysis is greeted with much enthousiasm by men .... and with far less enthousiasm by women.

Men want to explain, women can leave it be.
(Of course - you might have guessed this - I do detest generalizations and sweeping statements. )

Btw: did you do scientific research to prove that no one enjoys listening to classical music more than you?

[nimrod]

Btw: did you do scientific research to prove that no one enjoys listening to classical music more than you?

It's a fact.  I enjoy listening twenty four  hours every day.  How could anyone enjoy more than that? 

[Marc]

It's a fact.  I enjoy listening twenty four  hours every day.  How could anyone enjoy more than that? 

I'm left in awe.

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/

[Mirror Image]

Thank you, Mirror Image!

I might just do that.

You're welcome. I hope you stick around awhile. We need more women on this forum.

[Sandra]

Are you by any chance female?

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

Marc, I don't understand your joke. What do you mean by that?

[klingsor]

I'm male, too, and I have experienced many times, after listening to music, that my need to talk about the concert/performance/recording and try to give some analysis is greeted with much enthousiasm by men .... and with far less enthousiasm by women.

Men want to explain, women can leave it be.
(Of course - you might have guessed this - I do detest generalizations and sweeping statements. )

I am very much this way myself. And I think it goes a long way to explain why forums like this are male-dominated. I have always wanted to dig deeper into the music, films and books I discover, even when I don't like them, I want to find out what makes them tick. I'm not so interested in composers' private lives, or whether they were happy or sad when they wrote a particular work, but I am interested in the technical side of composing. 

While I hate the sweeping generalizations some people make--especially after hearing only one or two works by a composer--I really don't like the highly contentious threads I find all over the internet, and on this board as well. I prefer a courteous exchange of ideas. It's possible to disagree with someone without being rude. That said, I do find a lot of friendly and interesting people on GMG.

Welcome Sandra, you will surely contribute some new and interesting angles on the music.

My favorite Russian composers are Prokofiev and Rachmaninov (underrated, imho, though he wildly popular)

[Marc]

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

Marc, I don't understand your joke. What do you mean by that?

(Welcome again, without jokes. )

It was kind of a rhetorical question. Meant to be as an attempt to confirm your statement about the difference in amount of men and women on boards like these.

Nimrod (male) immediately tried to analyse and explain Elgar's Enigma.
You (female) reacted by saying you just loved the music.

To me, both these reactions showed a perfect example of 'typical' male and female reactions towards music (or maybe even art in general). As such, they also kinda explained why there are so many men in forums like these. Men want to explain and discuss about their arguments, women just want to experience and enjoy without searching for endless explanations.

Of course, this is all generalizing, but who knows .... there might be some truth in it.

But now let's quit with all this male-like blabbering for a while.

About my own fave Russian (more or less) composers and music: I like Tchaikovsky (his 6th is Zenith IMO) and Stravinsky, I love Eastern Orthodox choral compositions (a.o. Bortniansky) and I'm absolutely mesmerized by Rachmaninov's Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom and his Vespers. Both these works provide me with much comfort.

[Sandra]

Thanks Marc. I see your point and you might be right. I just don't view composers as important intellectuals. Their work has to do with the world of sounds. If there was some riddle placed somewhere by Socrates, I would be very curious. The ideas of people like Socrates are important for the world. But the best thing I could get out of Elgar is his beautiful music. Maybe, I could read his biography or something... But I'm tempted to stop my curiosity whenever the anticipated reward sounds less than promising.

Thanks Klingsor. I love all the composers you (and Marc) love too.

[Henk]

(Welcome again, without jokes. )

It was kind of a rhetorical question. Meant to be as an attempt to confirm your statement about the difference in amount of men and women on boards like these.

Nimrod (male) immediately tried to analyse and explain Elgar's Enigma.
You (female) reacted by saying you just loved the music.

To me, both these reactions showed a perfect example of 'typical' male and female reactions towards music (or maybe even art in general). As such, they also kinda explained why there are so many men in forums like these. Men want to explain and discuss about their arguments, women just want to experience and enjoy without searching for endless explanations.

Of course, this is all generalizing, but who knows .... there might be some truth in it.

But now let's quit with all this male-like blabbering for a while.

About my own fave Russian (more or less) composers and music: I like Tchaikovsky (his 6th is Zenith IMO) and Stravinsky, I love Eastern Orthodox choral compositions (a.o. Bortniansky) and I'm absolutely mesmerized by Rachmaninov's Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom and his Vespers. Both these works provide me with much comfort.

Totally embarrassing reaction, Marc.

Sandra, welcome! Keep posting and visiting, after a while you get to like certain posters, and dislike others (but this has good things as well, and there's good moderating) and it will be nice to visit and contribute in a way which is entirely up to you!

Henk

[DavidW]

I just don't view composers as important intellectuals.

Oh bother.

[Scarpia]

(Welcome again, without jokes. )

It was kind of a rhetorical question. Meant to be as an attempt to confirm your statement about the difference in amount of men and women on boards like these.

Nimrod (male) immediately tried to analyse and explain Elgar's Enigma.
You (female) reacted by saying you just loved the music.

To me, both these reactions showed a perfect example of 'typical' male and female reactions towards music (or maybe even art in general). As such, they also kinda explained why there are so many men in forums like these. Men want to explain and discuss about their arguments, women just want to experience and enjoy without searching for endless explanations.

Of course, this is all generalizing, but who knows .... there might be some truth in it.

But now let's quit with all this male-like blabbering for a while.

I have a theory.  Maybe women are put off by idiotic, patronizing theories about how they can't analyze things? 

[Marc]

I just don't view composers as important intellectuals. Their work has to do with the world of sounds. If there was some riddle placed somewhere by Socrates, I would be very curious. The ideas of people like Socrates are important for the world. But the best thing I could get out of Elgar is his beautiful music.

Well, IMHO beautiful music can be as important to the world as philosophical ideas. And to create music in a convincing way, which touches and moves people all around the world, I guess some intellect is needed.

Totally embarrassing reaction, Marc.

Henk, just read the entire thread. Then you might understand that it wasn't meant to embarrass anyone. 0:)
It was merely an ironic attempt to explain Sandra's question about the different amount of men and women in forums like these.

I have a theory. Maybe women are put off by idiotic, patronizing theories about how they can't analyze things?

Could be.
But again: my reaction had nothing to do with an attempt to embarrass or patronize anyone, neither Nimrod nor Sandra.
From Sandra's reaction I see your point I think she understood that. And even if it were true that some people weren't as capable to analyze 'things' as deep as others can, why should I think less of them then?

In general , I'm not of the generalizing kind. But yes, sometimes it's fun (and sometimes even handy) to generalize.
But my personal opinion is: each and every individual has got his/her own qualitites. Socrates had philosophical ideas, Aletta Jacobs had feminist ideas, Elgar had musical ideas. To me, each can be equally important (each in their own way) to the human race.

And I truly hope that Sandra enjoys her visits here, including the opinions and discussions on this board!

[DavidW]

Well, IMHO beautiful music can be as important to the world as philosophical ideas. And to create music in a convincing way, which touches and moves people all around the world, I guess some intellect is needed.

Well said!

[Sandra]

Well, even if we grant it that men and women have different capacities in terms of thinking, using logic and reason... it's still wrong to conclude that it is men who have the advantage when it comes to rational thinking. The male culture (in America, at least) is dominated by a hysterical infatuation with professional sports. What's rational about that? What's rational about spending your hard-earned leisure on consumption of televised sports?

There may be differences. But I'm not a scientist and I have no way of knowing what those differences are. If Steven Pinker is on this forum, I'll be happy to know his opinion.

[Scarpia]

Well, even if we grant it that men and women have different capacities in terms of thinking, using logic and reason... it's still wrong to conclude that it is men who have the advantage when it comes to rational thinking. The male culture (in America, at least) is dominated by a hysterical infatuation with professional sports. What's rational about that? What's rational about spending your hard-earned leisure on consumption of televised sports?

There may be differences. But I'm not a scientist and I have no way of knowing what those differences are. If Steven Pinker is on this forum, I'll be happy to know his opinion.

Careful Sandra, if you stereotype men as obsessed with sports, you risk being stereotyped as being obsessed with shoes.   

However, it is a fact that in the US at least there are more woman then men enrolled higher education, and that now includes advanced graduate education. 

[mahler10th]

I just don't view composers as important intellectuals.

Aye Sandra well said, they are musicians, not intellectual giants (like me.... ).  I too have no time for 'intellectualising' music...for example, nuts that decide their way is better or more intellectually satisfying...like that daftie Schoenberg.

Oh dear, I have just realised that my current avatar looks a bit like this icon:   

[Sandra]

you risk being stereotyped as being obsessed with shoes.   

I'm not obsessed with shoes. I only have about 60 pairs.