Author Topic: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'  (Read 27579 times)

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ibanezmonster

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2011, 02:48:38 PM »
It is one of the greatest disappointments imo that the 'electric guitar' .. one of the most popular & versatile instruments of the 20th century hasn't been taken up by any major composers in a truly great way; I asked Boulez about this once and he admitted that there were players out there who could 'play' very well .. but they were not classically trained and that creates a huge barrier in communication.
If you got to talk to Boulez, that's pretty cool!


I think I posted this video, but a bunch of posts got deleted, including this, a while ago, during site maintenance.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/1K4JJL9grAU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/1K4JJL9grAU</a>

Yeah, it's not the best music in the world... straight up shred-type stuff, with not much substance. However, it's always been a fun song to play, and a very good exercise.
The audio isn't very good- I really am playing clean arpeggios (other people have mentioned how clean my arpeggios are, so I'd imagine they are, too, in this video).  ;)

canninator

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2011, 10:43:31 PM »
This thread got me a little fired up today, and seeing as I am having a fairly-happily fallow time compositionally at the moment, I thought I'd try my hand at a little arranging. I've had a very first attempt at guitar writing, and I've gone in at the deep end, with one of my quite complex piano pieces, but one which I think could make a nice guitar piece both stylistically and technically. Which is not to say that my arrangement will work, at all, but that I think an arrangement that worked could be made by someone who knew their way around a guitar.

The piece I've chosen is my sonata movement for piano written in 2007 - links to score and recordings are somewhere or other on my thread, and I'd upload them here if I could. But I'd like to get a guitarist's eye on what I've done so far, before I commit to doing more. I'm aware that some stretches may be tricky, and that some notes won't sustain as I've written them, but it would be good to know which are the worst areas in this respect (and any other respects too). Any other advice also gratefully accepted. Now, where can I post the thing!? I wish attachments were still working, they made life so easy.....!

Nice! Please do, I'll pm you my e-mail

Offline Luke

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2011, 10:57:49 PM »
Thanks - have replied, and expect an email with my efforts so far in the next few minutes!  :)

canninator

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2011, 11:32:52 PM »
My teacher has a recital for all his students at the end of the year.  I'll be doing a transcription of Bach's Italian Concerto for two guitars.  Jeez, it's next week!  I better get off the computer and start practicing.

Good luck with that. I'll bet it makes for a nice transcription as I think the treble clef sits pretty much perfectly for the guitar throughout. There is talk (just talk at the moment) at 4 of us getting together to do a transcription of a Lawes consort piece for 4 guitars. I've never been a huge fan of 4 guitar ensembles so we'll have to see how that goes (so, no I don't have any LA guitar quartet CDs in my collection!!)

Offline Grazioso

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2011, 03:20:04 AM »
I think I posted this video, but a bunch of posts got deleted, including this, a while ago, during site maintenance.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/1K4JJL9grAU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/1K4JJL9grAU</a>

Yeah, it's not the best music in the world... straight up shred-type stuff, with not much substance. However, it's always been a fun song to play, and a very good exercise.
The audio isn't very good- I really am playing clean arpeggios (other people have mentioned how clean my arpeggios are, so I'd imagine they are, too, in this video).  ;)

Nice! And I wouldn't denigrate the music, either. It's not far removed from a lot of fast instrumental baroque music. You may dig this thread, btw, with Alexi Laiho and friend playing Vivaldi:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,18349.msg505839.html#msg505839
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

ibanezmonster

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2011, 04:51:55 AM »
Nice! And I wouldn't denigrate the music, either. It's not far removed from a lot of fast instrumental baroque music. You may dig this thread, btw, with Alexi Laiho and friend playing Vivaldi:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,18349.msg505839.html#msg505839
Oh yeah, I watched that one.  :)

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2011, 08:51:50 AM »
If you got to talk to Boulez, that's pretty cool!


I think I posted this video, but a bunch of posts got deleted, including this, a while ago, during site maintenance.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/1K4JJL9grAU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/1K4JJL9grAU</a>

Yeah, it's not the best music in the world... straight up shred-type stuff, with not much substance. However, it's always been a fun song to play, and a very good exercise.
The audio isn't very good- I really am playing clean arpeggios (other people have mentioned how clean my arpeggios are, so I'd imagine they are, too, in this video).  ;)

Yes, this is typical shred stuff, which I dislike, but this is my own personal preference. My own playing is more concerned with harmonic color and texture than these types of shred licks, which I can perform, but playing fast for its own sake never really interested me. My approach is definitely more jazz-oriented than anything else.
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

Offline Grazioso

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2011, 09:12:01 AM »
Sounds like Yngwie .. and that kind of Shrapnel metal shred guitar stuff that was all the rage in the 1980s.
Seems like you've got a little technique, but you need to find your own voice and breath a little lol

That reminds me of Tony MacAlpine. (The guy is also a classically trained pianist and violinist.)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ENYYoIiut7I" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ENYYoIiut7I</a>

I dig that kind of shred: a lot in common with all the scalar patterns of baroque instrumental music.
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Offline Grazioso

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2011, 01:24:11 PM »
Ouch. Awful. Shred = mindless crap.

So what in particular is mindless about it? Why not take the piece I linked to and break it down for me.

Here's some earlier shred. Hold your ears :)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jOa8E4YdTWY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/jOa8E4YdTWY</a>
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 01:34:28 PM by Grazioso »
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Scarpia

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2011, 01:36:44 PM »
Ouch. Awful. Shred = mindless crap.

That's twice today I agreed with James.

So what in particular is mindless about it? Why not take the piece I linked to and break it down for me.

Here's some earlier shred. Hold your ears :)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/jOa8E4YdTWY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/jOa8E4YdTWY</a>

I have no argument with the statement that Vivaldi is mindless crap.

Offline Grazioso

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2011, 01:40:24 PM »
That's twice today I agreed with James.

Lie down and elevate your feet. The doctors will be in shortly ;)



There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2011, 02:27:35 PM »
That reminds me of Tony MacAlpine. (The guy is also a classically trained pianist and violinist.)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ENYYoIiut7I" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ENYYoIiut7I</a>

I dig that kind of shred: a lot in common with all the scalar patterns of baroque instrumental music.

I dislike shred in general. Tony MacAlpine, while technically proficient, has no heart or soul. It's just one scale run after another at breakneck speed with no real purpose. There's no narrative in the music at all. It doesn't go anywhere.
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

Kontrapunctus

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2011, 03:41:02 PM »
I generally notice an inverse proportion between technique and imagination in these "shredders"! How many times can we hear a diminished harmonic minor scale and call it interesting? Also, their backing rhythms are usually very simple, functioning solely as a vehicle for their wankery. Michael Angelo Batio is probably the worst in that regard.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 07:36:36 PM by Toccata&Fugue »

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2011, 04:27:12 PM »
I generally notice an inverse proportion between technique and imagination in these "shredders"! How many times can we hear a diminished harmonic minor scale and call it interesting? Also, their backing rhythms are usually very simple, functioning solo as a vehicle for their wankery. Michael Angelo Batio is probably the worst in that regard.

I agree. These shredders are amusing for maybe a minute or two, but then they become quite tiresome. Most of them have no sense of dynamics, no interest in harmony, and their attention to rhythm is quite juvenile. They simply are making "music" to showcase themselves, which, for me, goes against everything that I believe music is about.
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Philoctetes

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2011, 04:48:40 PM »
I generally notice an inverse proportion between technique and imagination in these "shredders"! How many times can we hear a diminished harmonic minor scale and call it interesting? Also, their backing rhythms are usually very simple, functioning solo as a vehicle for their wankery. Michael Angelo Batio is probably the worst in that regard.

Isn't that sort of the point of this particular type of shred? I find it endlessly entertaining. I'm always fascinated by how quickly they can get their fingers to move, no matter the notes that escape their instrument.

ibanezmonster

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2011, 05:53:19 PM »
That reminds me of Tony MacAlpine. (The guy is also a classically trained pianist and violinist.)
I actually liked that a little- thanks for posting. Very similar to Vinnie Moore, another guitarist I like.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/cCrxYTk-pBE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/cCrxYTk-pBE</a>
His best song, possibly, and one of my dad's favorite songs. It's very melodic and not as much "shred," but still...


I dislike shred in general. Tony MacAlpine, while technically proficient, has no heart or soul. It's just one scale run after another at breakneck speed with no real purpose. There's no narrative in the music at all. It doesn't go anywhere.
I can kind of see the "no narrative" part. However, I don't know about heart and soul- I hear some.



I generally notice an inverse proportion between technique and imagination in these "shredders"! How many times can we hear a diminished harmonic minor scale and call it interesting? Also, their backing rhythms are usually very simple, functioning solo as a vehicle for their wankery. Michael Angelo Batio is probably the worst in that regard.
I only have one MAB CD, but I found the progressive aspect of it amusing enough to keep me listening. Some of his musical ideas are so quirky that they almost make me laugh.  :D



Sounds like Yngwie .. and that kind of Shrapnel metal shred guitar stuff that was all the rage in the 1980s.
Seems like you've got a little technique, but you need to find your own voice and breath a little lol
That's actually not my song lol (it's by Theodore Ziras). Often, when I pick up guitar and mess around, I play a completely different style from anyone else, probably because of my in-depth knowledge of Romantic-Modern classical music. I do stuff that's, um... not very typical for a guitarist to do, but I might have to upload a video so everyone has an idea of what I'm talking about. I just improvise for now, because the only thing I would really want to write for guitar would be for an ensemble of 8-strings (~8 or so), which would end up being just me writing the score and layering the tracks, but I don't have the type of guitar/equipment/time/money to do that right now.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2011, 07:36:43 PM »
Isn't that sort of the point of this particular type of shred? I find it endlessly entertaining. I'm always fascinated by how quickly they can get their fingers to move, no matter the notes that escape their instrument.

I've been playing the guitar for 20 years and there was a point where I wanted to be faster than anyone else, but ultimately this was a lost cause because 1. it wasn't what I was about on the guitar, 2. I simply wasn't ever going to be faster than a Shawn Lane or Allan Holdsworth, 3. I was only kidding myself, because I wanted to make a real connection to music and 4. all of the musicians I have played with care nothing about shred guitar, they simply wanted to make meaning music like I did. If somebody wants to lock themselves in a basement and learn how to run neoclassical licks all day long, then that's their prerogative, but, for me, I need to make music with other musicians. This is much more meaningful for me. In my own practice time, I try and work on songs or at least fragments of what could possibly be made into a song. I audition them to whoever I'm playing with and if it seems like a good idea, then we'll build off of it.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 07:39:01 PM by Mirror Image »
"Humility is society's greatest misconception."

Philoctetes

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2011, 07:46:11 PM »
I've been playing the guitar for 20 years and there was a point where I wanted to be faster than anyone else, but ultimately this was a lost cause because 1. it wasn't what I was about on the guitar, 2. I simply wasn't ever going to be faster than a Shawn Lane or Allan Holdsworth, 3. I was only kidding myself, because I wanted to make a real connection to music and 4. all of the musicians I have played with care nothing about shred guitar, they simply wanted to make meaning music like I did. If somebody wants to lock themselves in a basement and learn how to run neoclassical licks all day long, then that's their prerogative, but, for me, I need to make music with other musicians. This is much more meaningful for me. In my own practice time, I try and work on songs or at least fragments of what could possibly be made into a song. I audition them to whoever I'm playing with and if it seems like a good idea, then we'll build off of it.

An equally valid approach.

Offline Grazioso

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2011, 03:14:03 AM »
Those skills used in shred are just that: a skill set, no different in their way from the techniques Carmignola had to learn to blaze through Vivaldi like that. (His various albums with the Venice Baroque Orchestra are delightful, btw.) A musician can then put those skills to good music or bad. For my part, I find the more well-known Yngwie boring, despite his obvious and acknowledged indebtedness to classical music, but some of MacAlpine's stuff has heart and soul--and damn catchy melodies, like that one I posted. I was whistling that for the rest of the day--well, a simplified version :)

In the guitar community you often hear people creating an opposition between soulful playing (think David Gilmour) and the highly technical guys. For me, those are just different modes of expression, like moving from a baroque violin concerto presto to a lyrical second-movement adagio. There's room for all of it. But the only way you can do both is to develop a level of virtuosity, and I respect the skill and dedication required to reach those high levels.

There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

Kontrapunctus

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Re: Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2011, 01:57:17 PM »
Anyway, back to classical guitar and real guitar composing!  ;D Nikita Koshkin has composed 24 Preludes and Fugues, which will published after his wife finishes recording them. Here she is playing two of them:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YDxYmhze5Do" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/YDxYmhze5Do</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/0nUuvxGdLGk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/0nUuvxGdLGk</a>