Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'

[Kontrapunctus]

Delcamp is good--has its share of idiots, though, and it's very heavily moderated.

http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/index.php

[canninator]

Delcamp is good--has its share of idiots, though, and it's very heavily moderated.

http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/index.php

I used to go there years ago and it was a lot more relaxed and didn't have quite so many subforums. It did get to be a bit too much "Bream versus Williams vote for your favourite!!1!!1!" so I stopped. Haven't been there in ages now.

[snyprrr]

How great of a stretch is asking to much of a player,... from the low 'F' on the low-E string? I'm debating the practicality of this chord:

0
0
0
0
6
1

What would you recommend for, basically, ANY bizarre chord with the low 'F' root? Even 'F#' also.

I CAN tell you that I probably did a Schumann to my fingers when I was young, and I can play this chord with a Discomfort Index of about 3/10.


Also, I'm curious how practical playing a 'bass/treble' melody, separated by 3 octaves, like this:

14  15
X    X
X    X
X    X
X    X
2    3

You'd have to play the high notes with the right hand, and either also play the low notes with the right hand, or hammer them, oy, which brings up another issue:


You know how you put you fingers on the fretboard to play a note, and, the sound that is generated BEHIND your finger, the note that is produced between the NUT and your finger, that high, click note,... what do we do about that, nothing? I mean, it's interesting to cultivate for its own sake, but, whomp!, there it is ALL the time,... and please, are you going to tell me I just have to play with more finesse? Ahhhhhhh.....

Anyhow, that's enough for now.


I HAVE been working 'hard' on my ultra avant garde guitar piece. The final basic architecture has blossomed, and the basic toolbox of techniques has been whittled to exclude the 'other' (so as to maximize Unity). I'm at that dis-spiriting phase where ALL I seem to have ahead of me is the grueling hammering out of sequences by trial and error, just work Work WORK!! (be thankful, right?) Ego has gone now, and now this is just something that needs to be done,... mm, hopefully!

I'm also getting the feeling that guitar notation is its own universe. I've been Composing this as if it were simply 'head music' (though, of course, it IS all supposed to be (barely) playable), and I have a feeling guitarist may look at the final score with..., let's just say that I DO like multiple staves for a portion of my approach. Frankly, I think the sections that needed it 'look' easier to decipher,... it cleans up the mess of too many notes,... no?

[snyprrr]

How great of a stretch is asking to much of a player,... from the low 'F' on the low-E string? I'm debating the practicality of this chord:

0
0
0
0
6
1

What would you recommend for, basically, ANY bizarre chord with the low 'F' root? Even 'F#' also.

I CAN tell you that I probably did a Schumann to my fingers when I was young, and I can play this chord with a Discomfort Index of about 3/10.


Also, I'm curious how practical playing a 'bass/treble' melody, separated by 3 octaves, like this:

14  15
X    X
X    X
X    X
X    X
2    3

You'd have to play the high notes with the right hand, and either also play the low notes with the right hand, or hammer them, oy, which brings up another issue:


You know how you put you fingers on the fretboard to play a note, and, the sound that is generated BEHIND your finger, the note that is produced between the NUT and your finger, that high, click note,... what do we do about that, nothing? I mean, it's interesting to cultivate for its own sake, but, whomp!, there it is ALL the time,... and please, are you going to tell me I just have to play with more finesse? Ahhhhhhh.....

Anyhow, that's enough for now.


I HAVE been working 'hard' on my ultra avant garde guitar piece. The final basic architecture has blossomed, and the basic toolbox of techniques has been whittled to exclude the 'other' (so as to maximize Unity). I'm at that dis-spiriting phase where ALL I seem to have ahead of me is the grueling hammering out of sequences by trial and error, just work Work WORK!! (be thankful, right?) Ego has gone now, and now this is just something that needs to be done,... mm, hopefully!

I'm also getting the feeling that guitar notation is its own universe. I've been Composing this as if it were simply 'head music' (though, of course, it IS all supposed to be (barely) playable), and I have a feeling guitarist may look at the final score with..., let's just say that I DO like multiple staves for a portion of my approach. Frankly, I think the sections that needed it 'look' easier to decipher,... it cleans up the mess of too many notes,... no?

[Cogluotobusisletmesi]

That's just awful. What garbage.

Would you mind explaining why you think it is garbage? I'm just curious because I'm currently working on the piece and I find it endlessly fascinating! It is much more than simply a showcase for extended techniques, there is a great level of musical organization and intent to be found.

How great of a stretch is asking to much of a player,... from the low 'F' on the low-E string? I'm debating the practicality of this chord:

0
0
0
0
6
1

What would you recommend for, basically, ANY bizarre chord with the low 'F' root? Even 'F#' also.

I CAN tell you that I probably did a Schumann to my fingers when I was young, and I can play this chord with a Discomfort Index of about 3/10.


Also, I'm curious how practical playing a 'bass/treble' melody, separated by 3 octaves, like this:

14  15
X    X
X    X
X    X
X    X
2    3

You'd have to play the high notes with the right hand, and either also play the low notes with the right hand, or hammer them, oy, which brings up another issue:


You know how you put you fingers on the fretboard to play a note, and, the sound that is generated BEHIND your finger, the note that is produced between the NUT and your finger, that high, click note,... what do we do about that, nothing? I mean, it's interesting to cultivate for its own sake, but, whomp!, there it is ALL the time,... and please, are you going to tell me I just have to play with more finesse? Ahhhhhhh.....

Anyhow, that's enough for now.


I HAVE been working 'hard' on my ultra avant garde guitar piece. The final basic architecture has blossomed, and the basic toolbox of techniques has been whittled to exclude the 'other' (so as to maximize Unity). I'm at that dis-spiriting phase where ALL I seem to have ahead of me is the grueling hammering out of sequences by trial and error, just work Work WORK!! (be thankful, right?) Ego has gone now, and now this is just something that needs to be done,... mm, hopefully!

I'm also getting the feeling that guitar notation is its own universe. I've been Composing this as if it were simply 'head music' (though, of course, it IS all supposed to be (barely) playable), and I have a feeling guitarist may look at the final score with..., let's just say that I DO like multiple staves for a portion of my approach. Frankly, I think the sections that needed it 'look' easier to decipher,... it cleans up the mess of too many notes,... no?

I can play the chord easily.

As far as two distinct melodies sounding apart from 3 octaves, the second half of Toccata Orpheus is based upon the expansion of a motif structured on this idea. It is possible, and once you acquire the proper physical technique it is not difficult. The bass notes can be played with the thumb of the left hand while the left hand also simultaneously plucks the treble melody. Unusual, but certainly not impossible.

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking about the high click note...I don't appear to get any high pitch clicking unless it is intentional.

Personally, I prefer multiple staves. Ultimately, it depends on the particular passage and how that musical event could best be represented via notation.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'd be very interested in a piece that is "barely playable"!

[Mirror Image]

Would you mind explaining why you think it is garbage? I'm just curious because I'm currently working on the piece and I find it endlessly fascinating! It is much more than simply a showcase for extended techniques, there is a great level of musical organization and intent to be found.

Because it doesn't rise beyond the experimental nor does it reveal any kind of beauty whatsoever. There's a reason composers like Murail only appeal to a small group of people. I think they compose sonic experiments just for the sake of it instead of creating music from their heart. All of this is, of course, just my opinion.

[ibanezmonster]

How great of a stretch is asking to much of a player,... from the low 'F' on the low-E string? I'm debating the practicality of this chord:

0
0
0
0
6
1

Ha! I've never tried that one before. Actually sounds quite nice.
This chord should definitely be used in isolation; otherwise, if given to someone else to play, expect your score to become future toilet paper.

[snyprrr]

Would you mind explaining why you think it is garbage? I'm just curious because I'm currently working on the piece and I find it endlessly fascinating! It is much more than simply a showcase for extended techniques, there is a great level of musical organization and intent to be found.

I can play the chord easily.

As far as two distinct melodies sounding apart from 3 octaves, the second half of Toccata Orpheus is based upon the expansion of a motif structured on this idea. It is possible, and once you acquire the proper physical technique it is not difficult. The bass notes can be played with the thumb of the left hand while the left hand also simultaneously plucks the treble melody. Unusual, but certainly not impossible.

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking about the high click note...I don't appear to get any high pitch clicking unless it is intentional.

Personally, I prefer multiple staves. Ultimately, it depends on the particular passage and how that musical event could best be represented via notation.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'd be very interested in a piece that is "barely playable"!

Ha! I've never tried that one before. Actually sounds quite nice.
This chord should definitely be used in isolation; otherwise, if given to someone else to play, expect your score to become future toilet paper.

Thanks guys. The way you guys are talking, I should include some of the more finger pretzel chords that I don't particularly want to do. That one was:

X
X
X
0
6
1

not, all the notes (my bad),... but, well, thanks for the word Greg!

Here's a Xenakis chord for sure:

0
6
8
0
4
0


btw- Mr. Barlow guy, there's a Barlow guitar piece on YT that's full of harmonics! Is that a drone in the background? Tape + guitar?

[Cogluotobusisletmesi]

Thanks guys. The way you guys are talking, I should include some of the more finger pretzel chords that I don't particularly want to do. That one was:

X
X
X
0
6
1

not, all the notes (my bad),... but, well, thanks for the word Greg!

Here's a Xenakis chord for sure:

0
6
8
0
4
0


btw- Mr. Barlow guy, there's a Barlow guitar piece on YT that's full of harmonics! Is that a drone in the background? Tape + guitar?

Cool chord and very playable. I'd say to write whatever you want and not worry about difficulty. As long as you avoid any outright impossible passages!

Until... Version 7 is the name. I'm not a big fan of the piece. In general, Barlow is not one of my favorite composers. Cogluotobusisletmesi is one of my favorite pieces of music ever though.

[snyprrr]

Cool chord and very playable. I'd say to write whatever you want and not worry about difficulty. As long as you avoid any outright impossible passages!

Until... Version 7 is the name. I'm not a big fan of the piece. In general, Barlow is not one of my favorite composers. Cogluotobusisletmesi is one of my favorite pieces of music ever though.

ok, you just got points in my book, haha. I didn't think the idea matched the length, but, I must admit that one of my all time favorite sounds is that kind of endless guitar harmonics thing. But I will return to the piano piece,... an obvious find.


As to the 'impossible' playing,... I was very humbled since I wrote that,... of course, probably anything can be MADE impossible simply by tweaking things here and there, so, I 'know' that that's not the route to go. But, Extreme Difficulty seems to be de rigueur in the Modern Classical Guitar World (if Classical Guitarists are anything like their electric cousins!), and so I do feel the need to... I don't know, is there a hint of S&M here?,... the NEED for in extremis. I think it's just what you said: If "I" think it's too much, someone will surely toss it off like butter?

ok, here's a chord I'm using that I'm considering pretty difficult to execute cleanly:

1) first the easy part:

X
X*(a)
X
X*(b)
1
0

2) Now, on *(a), play the harmonic right before the fourth fret, which sounds as a D#.

3) Now, on *(b), play the harmonic right after the second fret, which sounds as a very high D.

Now play all four notes in perfect relation, as loud as possible without overpowering the weaker notes. Perhaps, because... sigh... I... yes, bite my nails to the quick, I have no idea how perhaps a normal person might view these things with ease. But I do find bringing out the 'side-of-the-pick' harmonics difficult on the CG.



I've been working on this Section A for the last week. I now have about five strings of 'pearls' that I have to somehow conjoin,... but I'm running out of 'glue' chords,... and I still haven't 'seen' exactly how it will link to Section B, though I'm certainly much closer than I was... uh,... a year ago!

[snyprrr]

This has elements of my piece, but run through a cheese grater. Dig the comments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzxC9rfnDB0


Frankly, judging by many of the YT videos I've seen recently, the CG is a horrible horrible sounding instrument and needs severe help! Most of this has to do, it seems, with a) the actual 'video' recording (which, please,... these things are so horrible as to make one weep), and b), the venue the recording takes place. Practically every 'auditorium audition' is a complete washout,... how can the audience enjoy what sounds like mush? How can guitarists PLAY??, when it all leads up to an audition washout?

My piece, for one, will employ solid dynamics throughout. I mean, something has to be thrown out the window here, no? What really gets me on these recordings is when the guitarist is going to show us his sotto voce,.. aye! I see your fingers moving buddy!!

Another thing my piece will have is... one note after another,... none of this, what sounds like apparent noodling, like our friend in the video here. Play a little, stop. Play a little, stop. No,... sorry. That sounds too much like everything I've heard my whole life. I would much more appreciate something like Feldman at triple speed: at least then you're forced to keep playing... something! I'd rather hear the guitar than silence.

Like, our friend in the video does some gilssandi, but in no context. They are wasted in the sea of dis-apprehension. If you're going to use sounds, didn't Xenakis teach that they should be organized? My best example of this 'dis-apprehension' music is Berio's String Quartet 'Sincronie' (1963), WHICH IS VERY MUCH LIKE THE GUITAR PIECE IN THE VIDEO IN THAT IT IS ALWAYS START (WHoops....) always stopping something and starting something new. Perhaps the exact opposite of this is Xenakis's String Quartet 'ST-4' (1962), which is 'Sincronie' organized, really,... for the sake of MY argument, haha!

Anyhow, I rant...

All I know is, my piece WILL be Original! I'm thinking that at least it will 'look' interesting enough for one to WANT to play it. I WANT you to like me, haha!








What does everyone think of this 'new' style which has evolved since the '80s?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ_JHaSF-D8

There's other videos in the margin. I would say 'obviously' it HAS to be a steel string, so, should we even discuss here? 'Classically', wouldn't steel string guitars belong in the 'Mandolin Thread'?

But, I am still very interested in the 'drumming' aspects of the CG.


Question: What is the highest sound produced by a CG?


I'm gonna say the very high 'E' (in quotes) on the high E-string between the peg and the nut. Anything higher seems irrelevant.

Oh wait! When you slide your finger very quickly along the D-string, without fretting,... the faster you slide, the higher the sound,... to the point that it sounds almost equal to the former.

[snyprrr]

How easy is this for you to play on CG?:

0
3
5
0
7
8

I really have to concentrate, but I'm sure someone more limber could do it,... but, is it a breeze or is it a stretch? It feels to me like I'm hurting myself, haha,... my hands, my hands, what has become of my hands??

This piece I've been working on... it's so discordant I can hardly ever work on it any more,... even the cat doesn't seem to like it, haha,... oh, why can't I write Music little old ladies will adore?... sigh ...

[snyprrr]

How easy is this for you to play on CG?:

0
3
5
0
7
8

I really have to concentrate, but I'm sure someone more limber could do it,... but, is it a breeze or is it a stretch? It feels to me like I'm hurting myself, haha,... my hands, my hands, what has become of my hands??

This piece I've been working on... it's so discordant I can hardly ever work on it any more,... even the cat doesn't seem to like it, haha,... oh, why can't I write Music little old ladies will adore?... sigh ...

Also, is this chord playable?:

18
11
3
3
1
1

Please! Please!

[Cogluotobusisletmesi]

The first chord is playable, but given the context may be pretty impractical. The second chord is for the most part unplayable. I can arpeggiate it at best, but it is extremely difficult and requires some extended technique. I can't find a way to play all the notes of the chord at once.

I'll try again tomorrow, perhaps I'm just too tired right now.

Hope that helps!

[North Star]

How easy is this for you to play on CG?:

0
3
5
0
7
8

I really have to concentrate, but I'm sure someone more limber could do it,... but, is it a breeze or is it a stretch? It feels to me like I'm hurting myself, haha,... my hands, my hands, what has become of my hands??

This piece I've been working on... it's so discordant I can hardly ever work on it any more,... even the cat doesn't seem to like it, haha,... oh, why can't I write Music little old ladies will adore?... sigh ...

This change would make it considerably easier:

0 -> 0
3 -> 3
5 -> 5
0 -> 0
7 -> 3
8 -> 0

The other one looks quite unplayable, but I haven't played too much recently.

[snyprrr]

The first chord is playable, but given the context may be pretty impractical. The second chord is for the most part unplayable. I can arpeggiate it at best, but it is extremely difficult and requires some extended technique. I can't find a way to play all the notes of the chord at once.

I'll try again tomorrow, perhaps I'm just too tired right now.

Hope that helps!

This change would make it considerably easier:

0 -> 0
3 -> 3
5 -> 5
0 -> 0
7 -> 3
8 -> 0

The other one looks quite unplayable, but I haven't played too much recently.

Thanks guys. That big 'A#/Bb' chord WOULD be a nice one. I tried holding down the two top notes and.... aye, no, haha,... oy, yea, that's just aggravating isn't it. Would it work as an 'A'?,...

I really hope I'll have something to show one day, aye.

[North Star]

Thanks guys. That big 'A#/Bb' chord WOULD be a nice one. I tried holding down the two top notes and.... aye, no, haha,... oy, yea, that's just aggravating isn't it. Would it work as an 'A'?,...

I really hope I'll have something to show one day, aye.

Shifting it down to A just makes the huge stretch even bigger, and the advantage of the open strings is negligible. 

[snyprrr]

Shifting it down to A just makes the huge stretch even bigger, and the advantage of the open strings is negligible. 

Today this giant A# chord looks ridiculous to me. Am I just being cranky, or is it hard to make...mm... Power Chords on the CG? I mean, one of my all-time favorite chords is the one I call the 'Beethoven Octave' chord:

12
0
9
9
7
0

The one for 'A' seems harder to pin down. I don't really like any of these:

5             12             mm... maybe this one:    17
5             10                                                  17
2             9                                                   14
2             7                                                   14
0             0 (7)                                              0
0             0                                                   12   That's a pretty well balanced 'A' chord, no?



Though, this has a nice fuzzy sound. Go back and forth:

X          X
X          X
0          0
5          3
5          3
3          1

The 'low, with the 'open'. I mean, I know it's obvious, but,... oo oo, NOW the 'point' comes to me. What I'm getting at is that we're all sooo familiar with the electric guitar making Power Chords with amps and distortion, but, 4ths and 5ths themselves ARE the components that give that 'buzzy' sound, especially when you incorporated both fretted and open strings. Now I'm speaking of the CG, which, as I'm exploring, could very well be mined for its own particular brand of 'Metal' characteristics.

It seems very much harder on the CG though, because, pretty much, as you go up the neck you lose some low end 'badness',... though, of course, new strings help,...

Ramble Mode: ON

Ramble Mode: OFF

yeesh, haha

I mean, the low-E note is the 'baddest' note we have,...mm? Maybe F#? What's the 'blackest' piece for CG anyone knows?

[snyprrr]

The Electric Guitar Part for Stockhausen's Gruppen

Maybe some of you guys (snyprr etc.) would like to shed on this .. it's always good to dig deep into 'the masters' to really learn.

The review lady isn't going just... a little overboard? Is there, what, two minutes cumulative? I was listening today,... I mean,... frankly, I'd liked to have heard a KS guitar piece, proper. But. I'm not seeing the Guitar Composer the reviewer is,... meaning, I don't see KS being all that interested in it (I'm not saying about the guitar part,... I like that just fine in Gruppen). No one from that generation really cared enough about the electric guitar.

[snyprrr]

It's a marvellous guitar part in isolation .. dig into the score and get it under your fingers. If you want her arrangement, let me know.

Sure!!!