Guitarists of the world 'Unite!'

[canninator]

Well it's 7.30 am and I think we are short a thread for guitarists to discuss their compositions and playing. I know Greg and snyprrr play, as does Toccata and Fugue (because I checked out his guitars on his website!).

So what are people working on? I'm currently working on my speed and execution of the B section of Villa Lobos Prelude 1 and the higher numbered Sor Op 6 exercises.

As for composition, well I'm working on a counterpoint study inspired by Ustaloskoyas late piano sonatas.

[snyprrr]

I'm still working on that Magnum Opus,... haha,...

I did a dry run through of all the things I could think of that I wanted in it, just as an improv one-off, and it came out to 9mins. So, I satisfied myself that there really is a piece in there. Maybe we'll get into the 11-13min. range, but, at least, I know that there is material there.

The piece is in sections, with various concerns represented in each. I am somewhat pleased that I think that this piece 'sounds' pretty different from other Avant Classical Guitar that I've heard. Most of them sound somewhat like the Ferneyhough: lots of bleepy-bloopy superfast runs,... fragmented,... my piece will have a little of Murail's Tellur in spots, and lots of exploring the 'sounds' such as fingers running up and down strings, and playing notes from the nut position instead of the soundhole position,... and such like, BUT

All these things will be brought together as musically as possible.

Anyhow, I am trying to write something that I CAN'T play, which is difficult because we don't normally think of stuff like that.

I've been working on this for say 9 months now, and I have a very good idea of what the finished product would look like, but I am stuck on the first transition, and most all of the transitions,... and how to write these things.



Now I REALLY need the help of someone with the actual writing. I have so far about 25 pages of 'sections' and bits of sections. Much of it is on multiple staves because I don't know any other way to get around playing two of the same note at the same time (one thing the guitar can do in spades).


I am EXTREMELY undisciplined, and lazy, and spoiled, and have a super hard time not thinking about girls, so this project is becoming like my mockery. It seems that, just like in Spinal Tap, "As long as there's sex and drugs, who needs the rock'n'roll?" haha,... I'm not saying we're THERE, haha, but, it sure feeeels like 'going to work' whenever I start trying to put pen to paper. Dreariness!

I will probably have to hire a transcriber, or ghost writer,...ugh.

Still, if you asked me, I could flub through the piece and give you a good understanding of the concerns presented, and you would see how someone with ten extraordinary fingers could turn this into a real barnburner!



What do you guys think about playing the bass strings very high up on the neck? I love the 'dead' sound that you get here, and prefer to play single note meditations up there. It's like the difference of playing the 'b' of the open b-string, as opposed to playing the 'b' all the way up the neck on the 6th (bass) string.

Also, what do you think about playing notes, plucking from the NUT direction, instead of from the BRIDGE direction? You can find some interesting melodies from there. It's like a reverse neck. Would ALL guitars have the same notes, though? If it's standardized, I would imagine. Haven't checked though.


Also, I AM asking: How many SPECIFICALLY DIFFERENT percussive sounds can the Classical Guitar make? With the hands alone? I find four 'areas':

1) larger (bassier) part of the body.

2) smaller part of the body.

3) side of the body

4) headstock

... and these could be played by:

1) fat part of the hand (palm).

2) knuckles/ fingertips.

3) fingernails.


So, is that 12? What have you found?

[canninator]

I'm glad to hear the piece is coming along. Don't forget to add a Bartok pizzicato  . Groundwork and planning are essential, of course. For the piece I'm working on I started with a relatively simple algorithm from which I can map overall note durations, intervals, and clusters to where they should appear in the final piece and from this I develop the work using my own aesthetic criteria. So I'm pretty much at the framework stage and it's a notation mess at the moment. Like you it's slow with other things going on but unfortunately not the sex, drugs, and rock n'roll type. I'l get there. I do have some finished stuff, a Lawesesque canon and a prelude for piano most recently that I wrote for the missus.

I like the bass strings down beyond the 12th fret but with a little bit of vibrato. The Villa-Lobos I mentioned above plays an F sharp (I think off the top of my head) on the D (4th) string (as well as an E earlier on) and it's a beautiful sound. You can also notate the same note played on two strings quite happily (something else the first Villa Lobos prelude does!). If you mark the score with a fret for position, you can normally work out the fingering as it is most commonly a bass string in high position with an open treble.

[canninator]

All this talk of contemporary guitar  . I checked my amazon wishlist and I saw Starobins Newdance CD nice and cheap so I've just picked that up. I've put the Hoppstock 20th century guitar CDs on my wishlist also (after a rec from Toccata&Fugue) but I'll have to wait until these drop in price.

[Kontrapunctus]

Well it's 7.30 am and I think we are short a thread for guitarists to discuss their compositions and playing. I know Greg and snyprrr play, as does Toccata and Fugue (because I checked out his guitars on his website!).

Did you check out my compositions? They are extremely demanding and cast in an atonal neo-baroque style.

I'm working on Carlo Domeniconi's Chaconne--he took Bach's piece and basically replaced the notes! Aside from the fast scales, Carlo's is even more difficult to play. (Carlo's are primarily slurred and fall under the left hand very nicely, but the big arpeggio section is brutal!)

[canninator]

Did you check out my compositions? They are extremely demanding and cast in an atonal neo-baroque style.

I'm working on Carlo Domeniconi's Chaconne--he took Bach's piece and basically replaced the notes! Aside from the fast scales, Carlo's is even more difficult to play. (Carlo's are primarily slurred and fall under the left hand very nicely, but the big arpeggio section is brutal!)

Yes, I did, they looked kind of tough. Have you recorded them yourself? Listening to me midi's, I really liked the contrast between the formal baroque like structures but very contemporary harmonies, but it would be great to hear them in all their glory.

Love your guitars, what strings are you playing with (look out, guitar nerd talk approaching). I play a Kantare I 500 cedar top with Aquila Ambra nylgut strings. The strings can be a bit unstable but I love the warm mellow tone. I went back to try some composites again recently (D'Addario EXP45C) and it felt like I was playing a harpisichord by comparison.

Time to get down to practice now, I'm ironing out bars 39 and 60 of Maximo Pujol's Preludio Triston. I'm meant to be painting the front door 

[Luke]

Not a guitarist (how I wish I could...) but a composer who is, among many other things, fascinated and seduced by the contemporary classical guitar - from Britten's Nocturnal and Tippett's Blue Guitar through Henze's Royal Winter Music to Ferneyhough (and I'd like to mention a more obscure personal favourite, which some of you may know, and you really should - Richard Emsley's for guitar). I'd love to write something for guitar - I think my style might well suit the instrument well. But as a non-player, the idea intimidates me a little!

So I'm posting only to say that I'll follow the thread with interest!

Did you check out my compositions? They are extremely demanding and cast in an atonal neo-baroque style.

Where are they? I coulnd't find them on the site. I'd love to have a look.

[canninator]

Not a guitarist (how I wish I could...) but a composer who is, among many other things, fascinated and seduced by the contemporary classical guitar - from Britten's Nocturnal and Tippett's Blue Guitar through Henze's Royal Winter Music to Ferneyhough (and I'd like to mention a more obscure personal favourite, which some of you may know, and you really should - Richard Emsley's for guitar). I'd love to write something for guitar - I think my style might well suit the instrument well. But as a non-player, the idea intimidates me a little!

So I'm posting only to say that I'll follow the thread with interest!

Where are they? I coulnd't find them on the site. I'd love to have a look.

To be truthful, I've tried and tried with the Royal Winter Music but it just evades me. It just seems so static to my ear, I really need to give it another go.

The guitar is very idiomatic but if you decide to put pen to paper there are those of us here who would be more than happy to work with you 

I've played the Pujol this morning, some Dowland, some Sor, de Visee, and Villa Lobos. Now I must go and paint that door.

[Luke]

To be truthful, I've tried and tried with the Royal Winter Music but it just evades me. It just seems so static to my ear, I really need to give it another go.

There's stasis there, but so much variety of texture, and so many degrees of tonality, artfully explored. I love the way it moves through the spectrum as it does, as if 'proximity to tonality' is one of the parameters the composer is exploring, along with 'proximity to regular beat' and 'proximity to textural archetypes', if that makes any sense. It's a beautifully subtle, complex mix, to my mind/ear/eye

Thanks for the offer of advice, btw! Much appreciated. It's a tempting idea, one I may explore at some point when there is time.

[Shrunk]

My teacher has a recital for all his students at the end of the year.  I'll be doing a transcription of Bach's Italian Concerto for two guitars.  Jeez, it's next week!  I better get off the computer and start practicing.

[canninator]

...and I'd like to mention a more obscure personal favourite, which some of you may know, and you really should - Richard Emsley's for guitar).

I listened to 'for piano II' on youtube . Gentle and haunting, really nice piece. I may well have to pick up the CD of his works. If it is of this quality then it's a shame his piano music isn't better served on disc.

[ibanezmonster]

I haven't really been working on anything lately. Also, don't forget that Andy is a guitarist, too!

[Luke]

I listened to 'for piano II' on youtube . Gentle and haunting, really nice piece. I may well have to pick up the CD of his works. If it is of this quality then it's a shame his piano music isn't better served on disc.

In the mystery scores thread I posted the first page of the score of this piece, years ago. It's number 223...I'll see if I can turn up the link...

[Luke]

Yes, it's in this post. For some reason numbered 222 there, but it was definitely 223 in my files! One of the many counting mistakes I made in that wonderful thread 

I'd post the image here but can't do attachments at present. Which was, btw, to anyone in power who is reading this, the reason that best-of-all-threads died....for now.

[Kontrapunctus]

Where are they? I coulnd't find them on the site. I'd love to have a look.

www.johnoster.net/compositions.htm

[Kontrapunctus]

Yes, I did, they looked kind of tough. Have you recorded them yourself? Listening to me midi's, I really liked the contrast between the formal baroque like structures but very contemporary harmonies, but it would be great to hear them in all their glory.

Love your guitars, what strings are you playing with (look out, guitar nerd talk approaching). I play a Kantare I 500 cedar top with Aquila Ambra nylgut strings. The strings can be a bit unstable but I love the warm mellow tone. I went back to try some composites again recently (D'Addario EXP45C) and it felt like I was playing a harpisichord by comparison.

Time to get down to practice now, I'm ironing out bars 39 and 60 of Maximo Pujol's Preludio Triston. I'm meant to be painting the front door 

Thank you. No, I can't play them! Well, if I quit my job and worked on them for eight hours a day, maybe in a year or so I could!  I wrote "Sequentia Offertorium" for Antonio de Innocentis, and he plans to record it this year. Another young man (only 20) plans to give the US premiere of it in the fall. He's also playing Kurtz's I Giardini del Sogno--he's either insane or godly!

I'm down to one guitar, as I sold the Sebastian Stenzel two weeks ago. I'd like to try out a cedar double top to see what all the fuss is about! It might make a nice complement to my spruce Angella. I'm currently using D'Addario J 31rectified trebles and Savarez Cantiga basses. So far, so good!

[Luke]

It is one of the greatest disappointments imo that the 'electric guitar' .. one of the most popular & versatile instruments of the 20th century hasn't been taken up by any major composers in a truly great way; I asked Boulez about this once and he admitted that there were players out there who could 'play' very well .. but they were not classically trained and that creates a huge barrier in communication.

Well, there is Tippett - his use of the instrument is controversial, and gives fire to those who like to accuse him of all sorts of nonsense, but he was really breaking new ground here, and he does so in typically brave, committed, ambitious ways. He had the same problem Boulez talked about, but once he'd found at least one player with both the technique and the classical training, the potential became real.

www.johnoster.net/compositions.htm

Great, thanks! Having a look now...very interesting!

[canninator]

Interesting I'll have to look for that one, I never realized that .. the earliest successful example I could think of in a truly monumental piece was within Stockhausen's Gruppen where the electric guitar gets some nifty bits that stand out. Steve Reich wrote Electric Counterpoint for jazz guitarist Pat Metheny which generates a complex, pulsating tapestry of sound from the interaction between the soloist and up to 12 taped parts. And Mark-Anthony Turnage has worked closely with American jazz guitarist John Scofield in shaping works such as Blood on the Floor & Scorched ..

There's a few others; Tristan Murail's Vampyr!, Laurence Crane has written at least a couple. I agree, though, the instrument has never realised its full potential in 'classical' art music.

[canninator]

Also, I AM asking: How many SPECIFICALLY DIFFERENT percussive sounds can the Classical Guitar make? With the hands alone? I find four 'areas':

Before I forget, you really need to check out Scelsi's Ko-tha for his interesting take on extended technique, including percussion, on the guitar.

[Luke]

This thread got me a little fired up today, and seeing as I am having a fairly-happily fallow time compositionally at the moment, I thought I'd try my hand at a little arranging. I've had a very first attempt at guitar writing, and I've gone in at the deep end, with one of my quite complex piano pieces, but one which I think could make a nice guitar piece both stylistically and technically. Which is not to say that my arrangement will work, at all, but that I think an arrangement that worked could be made by someone who knew their way around a guitar.

The piece I've chosen is my sonata movement for piano written in 2007 - links to score and recordings are somewhere or other on my thread, and I'd upload them here if I could. But I'd like to get a guitarist's eye on what I've done so far, before I commit to doing more. I'm aware that some stretches may be tricky, and that some notes won't sustain as I've written them, but it would be good to know which are the worst areas in this respect (and any other respects too). Any other advice also gratefully accepted. Now, where can I post the thing!? I wish attachments were still working, they made life so easy.....!