Using 'dear' as a vocative and propriety in today's society

Started by Sylph, May 01, 2011, 05:14:33 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sylph

So, I've bumped onto this column by Philip Hensher

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/philip-hensher/philip-hensher-rules-of-behaviour-that-were-once-understood-are-now-vexing-us-all-2276875.html

and I'm a bit confused by this:

QuoteTo use "dear" as a vocative announces one of several things. One, that you are quoting something.

I'm not sure I follow. Why would dear be an announcement of a quote?

PaulSC

Quote from: Sylph on May 01, 2011, 05:14:33 AM
So, I've bumped onto this column by Philip Hensher

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/philip-hensher/philip-hensher-rules-of-behaviour-that-were-once-understood-are-now-vexing-us-all-2276875.html

and I'm a bit confused by this:

I'm not sure I follow. Why would dear be an announcement of a quote?

I don't think the author is suggesting that "dear" announces that a quote follows. I think he's suggesting that usage is mainly confined to literature (or speech of the past), so if you utter the expression you're likely doing so in the course of a quotation.

I think the author's thesis is wrong. My partner and I both say "Thank you, dear" -- isn't "dear" a vocative in that context?
Musik ist ein unerschöpfliches Meer. — Joseph Riepel

Luke

But in the author's thesis - and I've only read this thread, not the link -  he's not saying that using dear as a vocative can only mean that it's being used in a quotation. Only that this is one use.

The issue in the UK is over David Cameron's off-the-cuff use of the term to an opposition MP (female) during PMQ's; the effect, to some, was of condescension of the 'there, there, get back to the kitchen and let the men deal with this stuff' sort; others will have heard it as a sort of (possibly ironic) reference to a desperately unfunny advertising campaign (featuring Michael Winner  ::) ) which is itself, supposedly, ironic. Certainly, that's what Cameron would like the effect to have been. He visibly and audibly squirmed after making this gaffe, which as he knows could so easily suggest that, underneath it all, he's not so far off the Harry Enfield caricature himself:

http://www.youtube.com/v/LS37SNYjg8w

eyeresist

Quote from: Luke on May 01, 2011, 01:17:15 PM
The issue in the UK is over David Cameron's off-the-cuff use of the term to an opposition MP (female) during PMQ's; the effect, to some, was of condescension of the 'there, there, get back to the kitchen and let the men deal with this stuff' sort;

Supposedly sexist, but the effect would be almost exactly the same if a woman used it toward a man.

ibanezmonster

Quote from: eyeresist on May 01, 2011, 06:12:23 PM
Supposedly sexist, but the effect would be almost exactly the same if a woman used it toward a man.
It would have the same effect. Also, grownups say "dear" to children...

Luke

It's possible, I think, that we're dealing with a very British, irony-laden, popular-culture-referencing use of the word 'dear' in this case. It's not the simple innocent 'dear' that spouse might say to spouse or parent to child. The original link is actually quite precise and accurate in pinning down the issues, I think.