Composers on GMG - Who's currently hot....and who's not?

[Brahmsian]

I'm sure some of you (if not all) notice that certain composers at certain times seem to be talked about a lot and listened to a lot.

Recently, I've noticed the following composers have been red hot in discussions and listening threads:

*Koechlin
*Villa-Lobos
*Schnittke

I just wanted to mention a few, and I could name a whole pile of names, but thought I'd just mention a few to open up the discussion.

Feel free to chime in on who you think is sizzling hot right now and who is not so hot or discussed much, that stand out for you.   

[Mirror Image]

Of the three you have listed: Villa-Lobos and Koechlin are sizzling and Schnittke is not.

Besides VL and Koechlin, for me, right now, I've been listening to a lot of Havergal Brian, Pizzetti, Malipiero, Dutilleux, Milhaud (of course, aren't I always? ), and Revueltas. These composers are pretty hot for me right now. Composers that aren't hot right now, in my opinion, Boulez, Stockhausen, Xenakis, pretty much any composer who thinks farting in the tub somehow qualifies as music.

[Brahmsian]

Of the three you have listed: Villa-Lobos and Koechlin are sizzling and Schnittke is not.

MI, what I meant was that Schnittke's name has appeared a lot lately in the listening and purchasing threads, at least from my observations.

[Mirror Image]

MI, what I meant was that Schnittke's name has appeared a lot lately in the listening and purchasing threads, at least from my observations.

In that case, this thread doesn't really make much sense then, because anybody can look at the composer discussion threads and see who's most discussed and who isn't.

As far as Koechlin is concerned, not many have been listening to his music except for me. In fact, I've been the driving force recently behind this composer's thread. If I haven't had brought him up, then his name would still be on the bottom and I'm perfectly okay with that. Koechlin isn't for everybody, just like Sibelius isn't for everybody, or Schoenberg isn't for everybody. Speaking of which, I need to make another post.

[Philoctetes]

MI, what I meant was that Schnittke's name has appeared a lot lately in the listening and purchasing threads, at least from my observations.

Xenakis had a bit of a spurt.

[DavidW]

Xenakis had a bit of a spurt.

Yup, it came to mind immediately.  Schnittke and Shostakovich I've noticed as well... but... these are retaliation listens that happen whenever posters badmouth a composer, other posters retaliate with marathons from that composer.

But Xenakis was the real deal for interest, if briefly. 

Composers that are not hot: Mahler, Beethoven, Bruckner, Sibelius usually have some presence on the forum but it seems as if the conversations on these composers have gone dormant.

[Philoctetes]

As to the should, everyone in this thread:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,17509.0.html

[The new erato]

In that case, this thread doesn't really make much sense then, because anybody can look at the composer discussion threads and see who's most discussed and who isn't.

Naaah;...they appear in listening and purchases threads etc....

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

but... these are retaliation listens that happen whenever posters badmouth a composer, other posters retaliate with marathons from that composer.

LOL. "Retaliation listens"? That's the first I've heard of such a concept. Call me old-fashioned, but I think you should listen to music because you like it, not because other people don't!

[Brian]

Sibelius usually has some presence on the forum but it seems as if the conversations on these composers have gone dormant.

A lot of that has to do with two people: DavidRoss is not posting much these days, and I haven't been listening to much Sibelius at all. The last time Sibelius was really "hot" and his thread was gaining 10-15 new posts per day, it was because Elgarian was trying to crack the late symphonies and I was going through a major Sibelius phase at the same time... so far in 2011, discounting listens for MusicWeb reviews, I've only listened to Sibelius 9 times. 

[Sid]

Composers that aren't hot right now, in my opinion, Boulez, Stockhausen, Xenakis, pretty much any composer who thinks farting in the tub somehow qualifies as music.

Well, I don't know (& don't really care) if those three you mention are "hot" or not, but one has to admit that they were amongst the major movers and shakers of the classical music world after 1945. They're not "big names" for nothing, they all composed some very engaging music (engaging to me at least). Their music isn't "fart" music any more than those composers you like. Much of their music that I have heard - that has mainly been in the chamber and electronic realms - is highly sophisticated and innovative. & it is relevant to any listener who wants to get their head around what happened in music after World War Two. I have an acquaintance who studied the composition degree at the Sydney Conservatorium & she analysed and studied the music of all of those three in depth (whether she likes them or not is another matter). I doubt whether she has ever even heard of guys like Malipiero, Brian, Pizzetti or Koechlin. They might be of curiosity value, but they are basically nonentities to even some (or most?) of the most sophisticated and knowledgeable classical music listeners (but I must add that Brian's "Gothic Symphony" is garnering quite a bit of a cult following in many quarters around the world, so his reputation might be more solid, but only based on that one work)...

& a further "lecture"  -

Besides...Koechlin, for me, right now, I've been listening to a lot of Havergal Brian, Pizzetti, Malipiero...

I haven't heard anything by those, and something tells me I'm probably not missing out on that much. They were basically composers on the fringes (not that I only like composers who were/are "mainstream"). I have found loads to discover in the "biggies" like Monteverdi, Handel & Beethoven. The more I delve into composers like this the more I come to the conclusion that they have so much to offer that it can take a lifetime (or a sizeable chunk of it) to fully come to terms with and appreciate their genius. The major innovations in classical music (eg. the things that have had a lasting impact until today) happened up to the Classical Era. What happened after that was just further refinement and exploration of the possiblities set down by the earlier composers...

[Luke]

I have an acquaintance who studied the composition degree at the Sydney Conservatorium & she analysed and studied the music of all of those three in depth (whether she likes them or not is another matter). I doubt whether she has ever even heard of guys like Malipiero, Brian, Pizzetti or Koechlin. They might be of curiosity value, but they are basically nonentities to even some (or most?) of the most sophisticated and knowledgeable classical music listeners (but I must add that Brian's "Gothic Symphony" is garnering quite a bit of a cult following in many quarters around the world, so his reputation might be more solid, but only based on that one work)...

I'd say that any music student/composition student worth their salt ought to have the intellectual curiosity to explore all the music they can. I find it very hard to imagine a real musician who is indifferent to music or who doesn't have a voracious appetite for it.

I'd also say that if one hasn't heard of the four composers you mention as examples (I'm not even saying have an intimate acquaintance with their music, but just have heard of them, be aware of them, know where they fit in the general scheme of things) then one can't really be included amongst 'the most sophisticated and knowledgable classical music listeners.

[Coco]

I love both Koechlin and Boulez's music. I even think the latter's music has had a lot of appeal for non-specialist listeners, especially since the 80s with pieces like Repons and "...explosante-fixe...". These are colorful and — yes — accessible works.

Stockhausen is harder to get into — I'm still exploring his oeuvre, but so far Gruppen has been the standout for me. I don't find this music ugly at all — just pure sensory overload.

[karlhenning]

A fine, thought-provoking thread, Ray!  I see its point as more a matter of communal trend rather than just the customary "what the music does for me" banter.

Certainly I'm on board with Luke's point viz. the importance of sonic curiosity to the serious music student or composer.

Davey, I don't think (in the case of Schnittke, anyway) that "retaliation" covers this uptick. Here, it's also a matter of members like Scarps and yrs truly finding inspiration to explore more of his catalogue.  In my own case, I am listening to hours of his music I'd never heard before, and digging it mightily.

[Brian]

I'd say that any music student/composition student worth their salt ought to have the intellectual curiosity to explore all the music they can. I find it very hard to imagine a real musician who is indifferent to music or who doesn't have a voracious appetite for it.

I'd also say that if one hasn't heard of the four composers you mention as examples (I'm not even saying have an intimate acquaintance with their music, but just have heard of them, be aware of them, know where they fit in the general scheme of things) then one can't really be included amongst 'the most sophisticated and knowledgable classical music listeners.

Digression About American Music Students Worth Their Salt (Or Not)

At my undergraduate university, which is home to a prestigious conservatory, a musicologist friend of mine knew Koechlin's Persian Hours, but I have no idea if anybody had heard of Pizzetti, Malipiero or Havergal Brian. People knew what they did: pianists knew their Czerny and Hummel and Paderewski; violinists knew Beriot and Berio and Ysaye; composition students were able to talk fluently about Boulez, Reich, whomever; music theorists pretty much universally specialized in Stravinsky. There was not an overwhelming amount of crossover: I heard a couple violinists who were amazed that they'd found a Ligeti piece that didn't sound like space aliens, and the Stravinsky brigade pretty much tuned out the post-1910 romantics. My Koechlin-loving friend (who wrote his thesis on Stravinsky) hadn't heard all the Beethoven symphonies.

One year, I was pretty attracted to a very cute new composition student whose (12-tone) first string quartet I heard and enjoyed. She was clever and self-deprecating and her music had personality. But then our school orchestra put on a program of Berg's Violin Concerto and the "Eroica" Symphony, and she left at the half; I asked her about it later, and she said she really didn't find "Eroica" all that interesting. And that was the end of that romance.

There was a pretty universal agreement among my music major friends that I had listened to far more music than they had. Which made me sad, honestly.* 

*EDIT: Hang on! Not true. A cellist friend has incorporated a few pieces into her repertoire after I found them and introduced them to her, including the Khachaturian cello concerto and some music by Mieczyslaw Weinberg, and I am very proud of that.

[karlhenning]

Digression About American Music Students Worth Their Salt (Or Not)

[snip]

. . . My Koechlin-loving friend (who wrote his thesis on Stravinsky) hadn't heard all the Beethoven symphonies.

Oof. Like it or not, knowing LvB's nine is basic musical literacy.

. . . the tangential question (tied in with discussion of the Canon, elsewhere) is, of course: Is there still a Core Literature with which a musician must be familiar, in order to be considered musically literate?

[karlhenning]

. . . One year, I was pretty attracted to a very cute new composition student whose (12-tone) first string quartet I heard and enjoyed. She was clever and self-deprecating and her music had personality. But then our school orchestra put on a program of Berg's Violin Concerto and the "Eroica" Symphony, and she left at the half; I asked her about it later, and she said she really didn't find "Eroica" all that interesting. And that was the end of that romance.

Well, but that doesn't mean that she would never find it of interest.  That is a snapshot of where her ears were at that time.  Heck, there have been times when I didn't find Beethoven interesting.  (I'm still in a place where I do not find the Bach Cantatas interesting, e.g.)

You've got to allow a composer his dislikes, which are not necessarily permanent.  It's unrealistic to expect a composer to like everything, even to like all the inarguably great lit.

[DavidW]

Davey, I don't think (in the case of Schnittke, anyway) that "retaliation" covers this uptick. Here, it's also a matter of members like Scarps and yrs truly finding inspiration to explore more of his catalogue.  In my own case, I am listening to hours of his music I'd never heard before, and digging it mightily.

I wasn't thinking of Scarpia mostly you and Brian.  You have you listening to the Schnittke after the MI rant... and then notably after the Toucan DSCH smackdown both you and Brian go on DSCH listens, I think Brian trotted out a marathon.  Perhaps it's only being reminded of how much you love the composer... but I still notice a cause and effect.  And I've seen this repeated ALOT.  I might be the only one that notices but I've seen this pattern at least a dozen times on this forum: someone says composer X sucks, several posters say no he is great, a few of those go on a marathon of said composer when there interest was otherwise temporarily petered out before the thread.

[Luke]

someone says composer X sucks, several posters say no he is great, a few of those go on a marathon of said composer when there interest was otherwise temporarily petered out before the thread.

happened with Xenakis, so if only someone will say composer Y sucks we can all have an Ysaye binge... 

[(poco) Sforzando]

(I'm still in a place where I do not find the Bach Cantatas interesting, e.g.)

None of them? asks Sfz, who coincidentally has just embarked on another project to hear the entire set through. (I know, I know, I could be listening to Arnold Bax.)