Author Topic: The Copland Corral  (Read 81690 times)

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Offline Maestro267

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #400 on: September 20, 2018, 07:23:47 AM »
Just out of the blue had an urge to listen to Appalachian Spring. This is why I'm glad I've got this music, for times like this when I fancy spinning it.

On the subject of Rodeo, it's somewhat surprising to read that the only difference between the concert suite and the complete ballet score is the insertion of an interlude for honky-tonk piano.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #401 on: September 20, 2018, 08:12:34 AM »
The forthcoming release of his Third Symphony (John Wilson, Chandos) uses the original ending which I now much prefer to  the version which incorporates the cuts suggested by Leonard Bernstein. The recent release on Naxos (Slatkin) was the first to perform the original coda.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #402 on: November 03, 2018, 07:21:16 AM »
The forthcoming release of his Third Symphony (John Wilson, Chandos) uses the original ending which I now much prefer to  the version which incorporates the cuts suggested by Leonard Bernstein. The recent release on Naxos (Slatkin) was the first to perform the original coda.

And it is a fabulous CD in every respect! The performance of Symphony 3 is as good as any I have heard and the recording best of all. I heard so much more instrumental detail, especially in the second movement. The performance is very fine, rather slow at the start but of great cumulative slumbering power and I was delighted to hear the original coda, which I now prefer, which has only been recorded once before by Skatkin with the Detrois SO on a fine recent Naxos release. I must have 15 recordings of Copland's Third Symphony ( ::)) but this is my favourite. The icing on the cake is the other works, the craggy 'Connotations', the 'Letter from Home' which I don't recall hearing before and which reminded me, at the start of Elmer Bernstein's wonderful score for 'To Kill a Mockingbird'. The short 'Down a Country Lane' is an eloquent close to a terrific CD. One of my discs of the year I suspect.

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #403 on: November 20, 2018, 02:31:29 AM »
I've been listening to Copland's later CBS/Sony recording of Symphony No 3 with the Philharmonia Orchestra. I think it is underrated because it is understated (nice rhyme  :)). It has a unique warmth to it, unlike any other performance I know and it has been really good to hear it again (I had the LP). In the Sony boxed set it is accompanied by Henry Fonda's rather disappointing version of the 'Lincoln Portrait'. Still, even that was better than hearing Charles Dance narrating it in a fake American accent at the Proms earlier this year:


« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 02:42:37 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

PerfectWagnerite

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #404 on: December 29, 2018, 01:29:25 PM »
And it is a fabulous CD in every respect! The performance of Symphony 3 is as good as any I have heard and the recording best of all. I heard so much more instrumental detail, especially in the second movement. The performance is very fine, rather slow at the start but of great cumulative slumbering power and I was delighted to hear the original coda, which I now prefer, which has only been recorded once before by Skatkin with the Detrois SO on a fine recent Naxos release. I must have 15 recordings of Copland's Third Symphony ( ::)) but this is my favourite. The icing on the cake is the other works, the craggy 'Connotations', the 'Letter from Home' which I don't recall hearing before and which reminded me, at the start of Elmer Bernstein's wonderful score for 'To Kill a Mockingbird'. The short 'Down a Country Lane' is an eloquent close to a terrific CD. One of my discs of the year I suspect.


All 4 volumes are free to download if you have an Amazon Prime account if I might add. I think kudos to Chandos for featuring these fabulous and nicely filled CDs. I don't think there are too many Copland discs featuring non-American conductor and band despite Copland's reputation and popularity.

Of these I particularly enjoy this one:



just a crazy good Symphony No. 1 and a dazzling Statements.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #405 on: December 29, 2018, 01:54:09 PM »
All 4 volumes are free to download if you have an Amazon Prime account if I might add. I think kudos to Chandos for featuring these fabulous and nicely filled CDs. I don't think there are too many Copland discs featuring non-American conductor and band despite Copland's reputation and popularity.

Of these I particularly enjoy this one:



just a crazy good Symphony No. 1 and a dazzling Statements.
I've enjoyed this whole series and totally agree about 'Statements'.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Maestro267

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #406 on: January 05, 2019, 10:44:15 AM »
Isn't the Symphony No.1 just the Organ Symphony sans organ?

PerfectWagnerite

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #407 on: January 05, 2019, 11:01:49 AM »
Isn't the Symphony No.1 just the Organ Symphony sans organ?
The organ part more or less got absorbed by other instruments. I think it sounds better without the organ anyway.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #408 on: August 16, 2019, 11:15:24 PM »
An interesting new release coupling, uniquely I think, Copland's Third Symphony with Sinfonia India by Chavez. It also incorporates the original ending of Copland's Third Symphony:
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #409 on: August 16, 2019, 11:28:15 PM »
An interesting new release coupling, uniquely I think, Copland's Third Symphony with Sinfonia India by Chavez. It also incorporates the original ending of Copland's Third Symphony:


The "original ending" thing about Copland 3 is a bit of a red herring.  I think Bernstein was absolutely right to suggest the - brief - cut.  All the original is is an extension of an already somewhat extended final peroration.  To my mind this is a perfect example of folk looking for a 'special'/unusual selling point to promote their new recording as something different.  Of course this is now about the 3rd (4th?) recording to use these extra bars so not that USP any more anyway.

My favourite example of a pointless USP was the Chandos recording of the Elgar violin concerto using a different version of the cadenza Elgar wrote (pragmatically) for a recording when he knew the existing tech wouldn't pick up the detail of what he'd already written.  Never in a million years did Elgar consider that an alternative for regular use.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #410 on: August 16, 2019, 11:40:55 PM »
The "original ending" thing about Copland 3 is a bit of a red herring.  I think Bernstein was absolutely right to suggest the - brief - cut.  All the original is is an extension of an already somewhat extended final peroration.  To my mind this is a perfect example of folk looking for a 'special'/unusual selling point to promote their new recording as something different.  Of course this is now about the 3rd (4th?) recording to use these extra bars so not that USP any more anyway.

My favourite example of a pointless USP was the Chandos recording of the Elgar violin concerto using a different version of the cadenza Elgar wrote (pragmatically) for a recording when he knew the existing tech wouldn't pick up the detail of what he'd already written.  Never in a million years did Elgar consider that an alternative for regular use.
Must respectfully disagree with you RS about the original ending of Copland's Third Symphony which I find even more moving and spine-tingling  than the more familiar version. I think it's great, like the 1920 ending of A London Symphony by Vaughan Williams. I think it must be the third recording, the others being by Slatkin on Naxos and Wilson on Chandos. Also, as for USP, the original ending is not mentioned anywhere in the booklet or on the CD cover as far as I can see.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 11:54:56 PM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #411 on: August 18, 2019, 01:23:10 AM »
Must respectfully disagree with you RS about the original ending of Copland's Third Symphony which I find even more moving and spine-tingling  than the more familiar version. I think it's great, like the 1920 ending of A London Symphony by Vaughan Williams. I think it must be the third recording, the others being by Slatkin on Naxos and Wilson on Chandos. Also, as for USP, the original ending is not mentioned anywhere in the booklet or on the CD cover as far as I can see.

We agree on far more than we don't - so I concur about agreeing to disagree here!  I had a quick listen comparing Wilson with Bernstein's last recording and unless I'm missing something the "cut" really is just a couple of the repeated thwacks on the bass drum - about 15 seconds in all.  I agree absolutely about the RVW/London symphony extended epilogue (and the other excisions from the final revision) but this reinstatement doesn't do it for me.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #412 on: August 18, 2019, 02:31:02 PM »
We agree on far more than we don't - so I concur about agreeing to disagree here!  I had a quick listen comparing Wilson with Bernstein's last recording and unless I'm missing something the "cut" really is just a couple of the repeated thwacks on the bass drum - about 15 seconds in all.  I agree absolutely about the RVW/London symphony extended epilogue (and the other excisions from the final revision) but this reinstatement doesn't do it for me.

Thinking about it a bit more I think it can be argued that the 'cuts' in both works strengthen the structural integrity of the music but perhaps reduce the emotional impact. I agree that this is more significant in the VW work than the Copland.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #413 on: March 25, 2020, 11:20:01 PM »
Interesting looking new release (download only):

Interesting review as well. I can't tell from the review if MTT uses the original or the revised ending. One thing that I liked about the review is praise for the hitherto derided Jarvi/Detroit CD on Chandos which I've always thought highly of:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Mar/Copland_sym3_SFS0078.htm
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline pjme

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #414 on: March 26, 2020, 02:16:22 AM »
The organ part more or less got absorbed by other instruments. I think it sounds better without the organ anyway.

 ??? ??? ??? ???This terrific work should only be performed WITH the organ, of course!  >:D

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #415 on: March 26, 2020, 03:24:56 AM »
I'm not much of a Copland guy, but I'm over my phase of strongly disliking his music. They say growing up as a music student in Finland, you are going to hate Sibelius as part of a "rebellion" against the music that is constantly shoved down your throat, and perhaps it is the same story here in America with Copland.

I have the Bernstein Century disc with Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, and Billy the Kid. Listening to Appalachian Spring now. I'm enjoying it, and as it is a beautiful early springtime here in the Appalachian Piedmont, I can't help but hearing extramusical associations in the music—even though, of course, Copland named the piece only after its completion.  ;D

Anyway, I ought to give more of his music a fair chance. I have heard some of those BBC Philharmonic Copland recordings on Chandos and liked what I heard, I might want to get my hands on one of those CDs, or maybe something on Naxos. It seems they have recorded a lot of his orchestral music under fine conductors, Slatkin, Alsop, Judd, etc.

What other Copland is worth listening to? I remember really enjoying the early Piano Concerto back when I was first getting into classical music.

Offline pjme

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #416 on: March 26, 2020, 03:49:29 AM »
This is a great recording!

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/vC3qQpyp4rI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/vC3qQpyp4rI</a>

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #417 on: March 26, 2020, 04:12:04 AM »
I'm not much of a Copland guy, but I'm over my phase of strongly disliking his music. They say growing up as a music student in Finland, you are going to hate Sibelius as part of a "rebellion" against the music that is constantly shoved down your throat, and perhaps it is the same story here in America with Copland.

I have the Bernstein Century disc with Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, and Billy the Kid. Listening to Appalachian Spring now. I'm enjoying it, and as it is a beautiful early springtime here in the Appalachian Piedmont, I can't help but hearing extramusical associations in the music—even though, of course, Copland named the piece only after its completion.  ;D

Anyway, I ought to give more of his music a fair chance. I have heard some of those BBC Philharmonic Copland recordings on Chandos and liked what I heard, I might want to get my hands on one of those CDs, or maybe something on Naxos. It seems they have recorded a lot of his orchestral music under fine conductors, Slatkin, Alsop, Judd, etc.

What other Copland is worth listening to? I remember really enjoying the early Piano Concerto back when I was first getting into classical music.

Having also gone through (and grown out of) a similar phase, I can say that I think Copland wrote a great deal of fine music.  In addition to the more famous works, be sure to listen to:

- Short Symphony
- 12 Poems of Emily Dickinson
- Clarinet Concerto
- Piano Fantasy
- Inscape (but not Bernstein's recording, alas--we need a new one)
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Offline vandermolen

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Re: The Copland Corral
« Reply #418 on: March 26, 2020, 09:33:28 AM »
I'm not much of a Copland guy, but I'm over my phase of strongly disliking his music. They say growing up as a music student in Finland, you are going to hate Sibelius as part of a "rebellion" against the music that is constantly shoved down your throat, and perhaps it is the same story here in America with Copland.

I have the Bernstein Century disc with Appalachian Spring, Rodeo, and Billy the Kid. Listening to Appalachian Spring now. I'm enjoying it, and as it is a beautiful early springtime here in the Appalachian Piedmont, I can't help but hearing extramusical associations in the music—even though, of course, Copland named the piece only after its completion.  ;D

Anyway, I ought to give more of his music a fair chance. I have heard some of those BBC Philharmonic Copland recordings on Chandos and liked what I heard, I might want to get my hands on one of those CDs, or maybe something on Naxos. It seems they have recorded a lot of his orchestral music under fine conductors, Slatkin, Alsop, Judd, etc.

What other Copland is worth listening to? I remember really enjoying the early Piano Concerto back when I was first getting into classical music.
Well, I'd recommend

Billy the Kid (complete ballet)
Symphonic Ode (a more modernistic, monolithic type of work)
Danzon Cubanon (great fun)
Statements for Orchestra
Symphony for Organ and Orchestra
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).