The Copland Corral

Started by karlhenning, April 10, 2007, 05:12:59 AM

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Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Jay F

#141
Quote from: karlhenning on June 08, 2011, 05:55:31 AMAnother excellent Naxos disc is the Judd/Ennzedd Symphony recording of Billy the Kid & the Symphony № 3.  The latter symphony is meatier, more rhetorically "symphonic" than most of Copland's music . . . but, too, it may well sit at the summit of his oeuvreBilly the Kid, of course, is in his classic, Americana ballet mode . . . sort of if Tom Sawyer had whitewashed a Stravinsky score . . . .

What great descriptions, "sit at the summit of his oeuvre" and "if Tom Sawyer had whitewashed a Stravinsky score." I just ordered this disc. Thank you, Karl.

snyprrr

Quote from: snyprrr on May 18, 2013, 09:38:52 AM
Connotations
Inscape


Anyone on these two moist dissonant, Modern, and foreboding Copland works? I've always liked the clunky theme of 'Connotations', and the orchestration. 'Inscape' equally has searing moments, and is very thick indeed.

I think we have three 'Connotations': Bernstein/Sony, Bernstein/DG, and, an old NewWorld album (which I hear is the one NOT to get (I'm sure I've heard it from the library but the performance escapes me, though I suspect it had low wattage)). Everybody says the Sony is the only one, and it sure is searing, but the DG isn't bad, even though Bernstein made some cuts AC wasn't pleased with (it's still longer with the cuts than the Sony, so).

Apparently Jackie Kennedy went up to AC after the premiere and asked why the piece was so... 'ascetic'? Or something. I forget what the reply was.


'Inscape' is AC's last Orchestral Work. I think we only have Bernstein/Sony and Botstein/NewWorld. I'll have to go to the library for the Sony, but the new Botstein performance is just fine. I've only listened once so far, but the piece comes off a bit more diffuse than 'Connotations'. I'll admit that I like Copland's 'enigmatic' pieces ('Dance Panels', 'Statements'); I like his 'thoughts' so to speak,... somewhat like Schuman in the Titles ('Credendum', 'Statements').

As far as the older, mid-century generation (Hindemith, DSCH, Bloch, etc.,...), these two pieces seem like the only really Modernist pieces outside of Stravinsky (I'm suuure I'm missing oodles, but I'm not talking Frank Martin). What do you think?

The Botstein just can't compare to the intensity of the Bernstein (Inscape).

Karl Henning

Quote from: snyprrr on June 18, 2013, 06:21:10 AM
The Botstein just can't compare to the intensity of the Bernstein (Inscape).

That's what I might have guessed; thanks for the confirmation!

Quote from: Jay F on June 17, 2013, 02:54:02 PM
What great descriptions, "sit at the summit of his oeuvre" and "if Tom Sawyer had whitewashed a Stravinsky score." I just ordered this disc. Thank you, Karl.

Thank you kindly, Jay. It's a while since I listened to that disc, I need to fetch it back out.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Rons_talking

Quote from: snyprrr on May 18, 2013, 09:38:52 AM
Connotations
Inscape


Anyone on these two moist dissonant, Modern, and foreboding Copland works? I've always liked the clunky theme of 'Connotations', and the orchestration. 'Inscape' equally has searing moments, and is very thick indeed.

I think we have three 'Connotations': Bernstein/Sony, Bernstein/DG, and, an old NewWorld album (which I hear is the one NOT to get (I'm sure I've heard it from the library but the performance escapes me, though I suspect it had low wattage)). Everybody says the Sony is the only one, and it sure is searing, but the DG isn't bad, even though Bernstein made some cuts AC wasn't pleased with (it's still longer with the cuts than the Sony, so).

Apparently Jackie Kennedy went up to AC after the premiere and asked why the piece was so... 'ascetic'? Or something. I forget what the reply was.


'Inscape' is AC's last Orchestral Work. I think we only have Bernstein/Sony and Botstein/NewWorld. I'll have to go to the library for the Sony, but the new Botstein performance is just fine. I've only listened once so far, but the piece comes off a bit more diffuse than 'Connotations'. I'll admit that I like Copland's 'enigmatic' pieces ('Dance Panels', 'Statements'); I like his 'thoughts' so to speak,... somewhat like Schuman in the Titles ('Credendum', 'Statements').

As far as the older, mid-century generation (Hindemith, DSCH, Bloch, etc.,...), these two pieces seem like the only really Modernist pieces outside of Stravinsky (I'm suuure I'm missing oodles, but I'm not talking Frank Martin). What do you think?

My favorite work of the "modernist" Copland is his Nonet for Strings. Contrary to what some assert it's not a 12-tone work. It does have some dissonances and cluster-like chords, yet there is a strong sense of diatonicism throughout. Copland combines some of the "western" rhythms with a contrapuntal texture and frequent tonal shifts. It sounds 100% American without invoking jazz or folk music (to my knowledge). It can be performed by nine players, or any multiple of nine. My first recording was the Columbia issue that included the Duet for Piano and Flute and the Violin Sonata. I've heard a recording with a full string orchestra as well. Both renditions are great. Several musicians I know were shocked to discover they hadn't heard of the piece. It's unjustly fallen through the cracks.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Rons_talking on June 20, 2013, 09:15:15 AM
My favorite work of the "modernist" Copland is his Nonet for Strings. Contrary to what some assert it's not a 12-tone work. It does have some dissonances and cluster-like chords, yet there is a strong sense of diatonicism throughout. Copland combines some of the "western" rhythms with a contrapuntal texture and frequent tonal shifts. It sounds 100% American without invoking jazz or folk music (to my knowledge). It can be performed by nine players, or any multiple of nine. My first recording was the Columbia issue that included the Duet for Piano and Flute and the Violin Sonata. I've heard a recording with a full string orchestra as well. Both renditions are great. Several musicians I know were shocked to discover they hadn't heard of the piece.

(* raises hand *)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

snyprrr

Quote from: Rons_talking on June 20, 2013, 09:15:15 AM
My favorite work of the "modernist" Copland is his Nonet for Strings. Contrary to what some assert it's not a 12-tone work. It does have some dissonances and cluster-like chords, yet there is a strong sense of diatonicism throughout. Copland combines some of the "western" rhythms with a contrapuntal texture and frequent tonal shifts. It sounds 100% American without invoking jazz or folk music (to my knowledge). It can be performed by nine players, or any multiple of nine. My first recording was the Columbia issue that included the Duet for Piano and Flute and the Violin Sonata. I've heard a recording with a full string orchestra as well. Both renditions are great. Several musicians I know were shocked to discover they hadn't heard of the piece. It's unjustly fallen through the cracks.

Yea, the Nonet and the Piano Quartet for me!





HEY KARL, WHATEVER HAPPENED TO MI????

Karl Henning

Quote from: snyprrr on June 21, 2013, 06:26:15 AM
HEY KARL, WHATEVER HAPPENED TO MI????

Poor fellow, he wouldn't be guided... I don't think he ever recovered from that Delius binge....
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

And, yes, I pulled the trigger on a recording of the Nonet, knowing how richly gratifying was the experience of playing the Sextet.  Easily helped that the disc also has the chamber version of Appalachian Spring.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Parsifal

Quote from: karlhenning on June 21, 2013, 11:05:05 AM
And, yes, I pulled the trigger on a recording of the Nonet, knowing how richly gratifying was the experience of playing the Sextet.  Easily helped that the disc also has the chamber version of Appalachian Spring.

But those recordings are by Nimbus (?), which, to my ears, made the worst audio recordings that mankind has ever conceived.

Parsifal

Quote from: sanantonio on June 21, 2013, 11:35:57 AM
There's this one -



I'm listening right now on MOG

Ok, and "like new" for $0.01, can't beat that (except for the $3.99 shipping). 

Seriously, I usually like recordings a bit on the "wet" side, but the overwhelming reverbertation I hear in the typical Nimbus recording makes it impossible for me.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Scarpia on June 21, 2013, 01:04:40 PM
Ok, and "like new" for $0.01, can't beat that (except for the $3.99 shipping). 

Seriously, I usually like recordings a bit on the "wet" side, but the overwhelming reverbertation I hear in the typical Nimbus recording makes it impossible for me.

Ho capito, and in fact, I have only a very few Nimbus discs. Similarly, I reckoned that the calibre of performers, and the price, justified the risk.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on June 21, 2013, 06:26:15 AM

HEY KARL, WHATEVER HAPPENED TO MI????

I'm right here, snyprrr. :) Thankfully, I recovered from that Delius binge which only lasted two months. I've been in Shostakovich mode since May. Since I'm here on the Copland thread, a work I heard maybe a year or two ago that I revisited and enjoyed a lot was Dance Panels. Has anyone else enjoyed this work?

snyprrr

Quote from: Scarpia on June 21, 2013, 11:28:19 AM
But those recordings are by Nimbus (?), which, to my ears, made the worst audio recordings that mankind has ever conceived.

But isn't that the old Davies recording from MusicMasters (I have it on MusicalHeritage)? Nonet-App. Spr.-2 Pieces ???? If so, that's a fine recording.

Brian

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 22, 2013, 06:49:50 AM
I'm right here, snyprrr. :) Thankfully, I recovered from that Delius binge which only lasted two months. I've been in Shostakovich mode since May. Since I'm here on the Copland thread, a work I heard maybe a year or two ago that I revisited and enjoyed a lot was Dance Panels. Has anyone else enjoyed this work?
I'm about to hear Dance Panels this weekend; the new Naxos Rodeo I reviewed at the bottom of the last page comes coupled with it.

vandermolen

Quote from: sanantonio on June 21, 2013, 11:35:57 AM
There's this one -



I'm listening right now on MOG

These three Sets were of great interest and very well presented with photos etc. I liked discovering the Carl Sandburg version of the Lincoln Portrait. Much better than the Henry Fonda version in my view.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Karl Henning

I listened to the Dance Panels just this past Thursday. Top-shelf Copland.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Parsifal

Quote from: snyprrr on June 22, 2013, 06:58:07 AM
But isn't that the old Davies recording from MusicMasters (I have it on MusicalHeritage)? Nonet-App. Spr.-2 Pieces ???? If so, that's a fine recording.

There's some confusion here.  Now I see that Nimbus has two different recordings of the Nonet, one by Davies, the other by Boughton.   In the past I have been very dissatisfied with Nimbus/Boughton recordings.  Maybe Nimbus recordings with Davies and St. Lukes would suit me better.  The Nimbus Davies seems to be identical with a Musical Heritage Society release, but I thought MHS only re-issued recordings made by other labels, maybe that's not so. 

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[asin]B00165QONK[/asin]

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At this point the only Copland I can recall in my collection is this, which I do not like at all.

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Karl Henning

I'm with you, I have no appetite for the Boughton/Nimbus disc of Copland. I seem to remember the Britten being all right, though.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

Quote from: Brian on June 22, 2013, 07:45:29 AM
I'm about to hear Dance Panels this weekend; the new Naxos Rodeo I reviewed at the bottom of the last page comes coupled with it.

It's certainly a great work, Brian. As Karl said, top-shelf Copland.