Best modern Brahms symphony 4?

[Mandryka]

Another really special one, in very good sound, which I forgot about, is Stokowski with the All American Youth Orchestra. Much much much more free than his Philadelphia recording.

[Herman]

it's interesting to see that virtually no one mentions a 'modern' recording, in defiance of the OP.

Does this mean Brahms performance is in such bad shape today?

[Opus106]

Does this mean Brahms performance is in such bad shape today?

It means all is fine and dandy at GMG: most members are simply stating what they like.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

We CAN have the best of both worlds: greatness in performance mated to greatness in recorded sound (modern).

To me that's Jansons/Oslo (live). 







I love how rich and burly the sound is here, with wide dynamics and top-to-bottom symmetry. I'm guessing the acoustics of the Oslo Concert Hall contribute to the overall results as even what Jansons/Oslo there is on EMI (that I've heard) is fantastically recorded.

[Mandryka]

it's interesting to see that virtually no one mentions a 'modern' recording, in defiance of the OP.

Does this mean Brahms performance is in such bad shape today?

Didn't find much interesting in Ratthe's; will try to listen to one of Levine's later today and comment -- I can't remember anything about it! I'm curious about Gielen's because his German Requiem is my favourite recording ever of that difficult music.

[Scarpia]

it's interesting to see that virtually no one mentions a 'modern' recording, in defiance of the OP.

Does this mean Brahms performance is in such bad shape today?

Participation in this thread is very sparse, so what I think it means is that this thread has only attracted the attention of that segment of the members who are only interested in museum pieces.

[zauberharfe]

I'm sure you could come up with some modern interpretations which stand comparison with these 'museum pieces', couldn't you

[DavidW]

it's interesting to see that virtually no one mentions a 'modern' recording, in defiance of the OP.

Does this mean Brahms performance is in such bad shape today?

No the OP mentioned Sanderling once and then asked about Jochum, which I thought made it clear that his modern is simply post-WWII.  If he said something like recorded over the last twenty years instead the thread would have looked different.

[Scarpia]

I'm sure you could come up with some modern interpretations which stand comparison with these 'museum pieces', couldn't you

Kleiber, Harnoncourt, Kertesz, Dohnanyi, Janowski, Sawalisch, in no particular order.  All can stand comparison with any version I know of (although I would not want to give up my old mono Jochum recording).

[Mandryka]

Kleiber, Harnoncourt, Kertesz, Dohnanyi, Janowski, Sawalisch, in no particular order.  All can stand comparison with any version I know of (although I would not want to give up my old mono Jochum recording).

Cool list.

Do you know of Furtwangler, Mengelberg and Stokowski with the All American Youth Orchestra?

[Scarpia]

Cool list.

Do you know of Furtwangler, Mengelberg and Stokowski with the All American Youth Orchestra?

I have some curiosity about the Mengelberg, but experience with other recordings doesn't leave me with much enthusiasm to search out those Furtwangler or Stokowski recordings.

[Mandryka]

I have some curiosity about the Mengelberg, but experience with other recordings doesn't leave me with much enthusiasm to search out those Furtwangler or Stokowski recordings.

If you are open minded enough to enjoy  Harnoncourt then you will I think very much like the Stokowski -- it is not like his other recordings of Brahms 4. It's as if he allowed himself greater freedom to experiment because he was with a yourth orchestra. If you can upload I will happily share it with you hear.

The Mengelberg is . . . Mengelberg. The Furtwangler is  . . . Furtwangler. You either like their rubato or you don't I suppose.

But the Stokowski is -- sui generis. I don't think I'm exaggerating -- or if so, only a bit 

[ccar]

But the Stokowski is -- sui generis. I don't think I'm exaggerating -- or if so, only a bit 

                                                                         


Stokowski is sometimes regarded as a second-rate, overindulged "popular" conductor. But, for those who dare, his recordings of the Brahms symphonies may help to change this simplistic view. Mandryka rightly points his "special" All American Youth recording of the 4th. There is also the one from his "historic" Philadelphia cycle, from the 1920-30's, and a few other from live concerts. But the "modern" Stokowsky Brahms 4ths I would also like to suggest are his last London performances, with the New Philarmonia Orchestra.

Prepare yourself for the ride, fasten your seatbelts and enjoy – for those who never listened it may be an unexpected experience. The orchestral colors are magnificent and no one will believe the drive pulled from that orchestra by a 92 year-old conductor. You may compare the recording of the live concert (BBC - 4 May 1974) with the studio recording (RCA - June 1974). They are both recommendable in my view. The live performance is more electrifying but the studio reveals almost the same energy and a fuller palette of textures and orchestral balance. 
   
These 1974 recordings are not contemporary but the sound quality is very good. And more importantly they are fresh, spontaneous and with real musical fire within – and this is what may defy any preconceived historical, intellectual and interpretative dogmas. So, in that sense, we may also call them "modern".


                                         

[snyprrr]

it's interesting to see that virtually no one mentions a 'modern' recording, in defiance of the OP.

Does this mean Brahms performance is in such bad shape today?

I've never really listened to Brahms Symphonies. I just got the Eschenbach from the library. What should I do?

[DavidW]

I've never really listened to Brahms Symphonies. I just got the Eschenbach from the library. What should I do?

Put one of the cds in your cd player and hit play.

[Lethevich]

I've never really listened to Brahms Symphonies. I just got the Eschenbach from the library. What should I do?

You face a problem As if you dislike what you hear, it could equally be the fault of Eschenbach's unusual approach to the works. It really, really didn't work for me, but some others love it.

[Xenophanes]

it's interesting to see that virtually no one mentions a 'modern' recording, in defiance of the OP.

Does this mean Brahms performance is in such bad shape today?

I suppose it depends on your interpretation of the word "modern." For me, it means anything from the stereo era onwards, beginning in the late 1950s, as opposed to older mono recordings issued originally on 78 RPM. That's a rough transition, but mostly adequate.

Of course, some may only want DDD recordings, but that's no guarantee of a superior recording, which seems to me to one of the main reasons people might want a 'modern recording.  Others might only want multichannel recordings which would be quite recent, but that's no guarantee, either. The 'old' Reiner/RPO recording some of us suggested was originally made on excellent open reel equipment and it's really a very fine recording, and the performance is quite wonderful, though it's not the only way to perform the 4th symphony.

One might try Alsop on Naxos for ultramodern sound.

[kishnevi]

I suppose it depends on your interpretation of the word "modern." For me, it means anything from the stereo era onwards, beginning in the late 1950s, as opposed to older mono recordings issued originally on 78 RPM. That's a rough transition, but mostly adequate.

Of course, some may only want DDD recordings, but that's no guarantee of a superior recording, which seems to me to one of the main reasons people might want a 'modern recording.  Others might only want multichannel recordings which would be quite recent, but that's no guarantee, either. The 'old' Reiner/RPO recording some of us suggested was originally made on excellent open reel equipment and it's really a very fine recording, and the performance is quite wonderful, though it's not the only way to perform the 4th symphony.

One might try Alsop on Naxos for ultramodern sound.

I think that's too extended a time period.    You're going back almost sixty years now;  literally more than a lifetime for most of the people now alive on this planet (including myself, although not by much). 

I'd define modern a little more flexibly (ie, without referring to a fixed date),   but with a shorter time period: a modern recording is one produced by artists still active, or recently active. or if you want to stretch it a little further, artists still alive or very recently deceased.    But the time period still reaches back pretty far: for instance, Haitink's 60s recordings would qualify there.  And depending on how you define "recently deceased' or "recently active", Solti as well.

That said, I don't remember any recording of the Brahms 4 that stands out for me .  I have Solti, Rattle, Muti, Eschenbach. and Haitink, and will be shortly ordering Gardiner's (I have the first three in his series already). 
None of them seem worse than any of the others, either.   

In  a pinch, if forced, I might pick Eschenbach, but that's partly for the simple reason that he's the one I've listened to most recently.

[Mandryka]

                                                                         


Stokowski is sometimes regarded as a second-rate, overindulged "popular" conductor. But, for those who dare, his recordings of the Brahms symphonies may help to change this simplistic view. Mandryka rightly points his "special" All American Youth recording of the 4th. There is also the one from his "historic" Philadelphia cycle, from the 1920-30's, and a few other from live concerts. But the "modern" Stokowsky Brahms 4ths I would also like to suggest are his last London performances, with the New Philarmonia Orchestra.

Prepare yourself for the ride, fasten your seatbelts and enjoy – for those who never listened it may be an unexpected experience. The orchestral colors are magnificent and no one will believe the drive pulled from that orchestra by a 92 year-old conductor. You may compare the recording of the live concert (BBC - 4 May 1974) with the studio recording (RCA - June 1974). They are both recommendable in my view. The live performance is more electrifying but the studio reveals almost the same energy and a fuller palette of textures and orchestral balance. 
   
These 1974 recordings are not contemporary but the sound quality is very good. And more importantly they are fresh, spontaneous and with real musical fire within – and this is what may defy any preconceived historical, intellectual and interpretative dogmas. So, in that sense, we may also call them "modern".


                                         

I don't know those recordings ccar. The other Brahms by him I like is the first symphony with the Hollywood Bowl Symphony Orchestra.

[jlaurson]

What is your recommandation for a modern Brahms 4?
The only recording I have is the Sanderling/SD, which I like very much, but I feel I need a few more recordings of this marvellous work.

If you really mean MODERN, then there's really only Simon Rattle's that immediately comes to mind.

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/03/dip-your-ears-no-100.html

As players of Concertgebouw (!!) said: "That's how we want sound in Brahms; that's Brahms for the 21st Century."

Merciless, gorgeous, hardened stuff.