André Rieu

[DavidW]

Andre did you just buy an Andre Rieu recording?  I think the world just ended!

[Willoughby earl of Itacarius]

Andre did you just buy an Andre Rieu recording?  I think the world just ended!

Yes, I think so, the world has ended, I would not like to be caught dead with a recording from that drivel musician.

[DavidW]

Yes, I think so, the world has ended, I would not like to be caught dead with a recording from that drivel musician.

Sid must have needed a coaster!

[Mirror Image]

Sid must have needed a coaster!

I'm worried about Sid. He's now crossed over to the world of Kenny G and Yanni. What next? John Tesh?

[Mirror Image]

Yes, I think so, the world has ended, I would not like to be caught dead with a recording from that drivel musician.

Yeah, I wouldn't be caught dead even looking at a recording with that pathetic excuse for a musician.

[Opus106]

Yeah, I wouldn't be caught dead even looking at a recording with that pathetic excuse for a musician.

Well, duh, you can't look when you're dead.



Stop bashing, start continue purchasing.

[Mirror Image]

Well, duh, you can't look when you're dead.



Stop bashing, start continue purchasing.

Sorry, but I can't help not to bash these musicians who have fooled people into thinking they're world-class.

[Sid]

Andre did you just buy an Andre Rieu recording?  I think the world just ended!

I thought that might raise some "controversy" around here, but I wasn't trolling. Well I only paid $3 for the Rieu album, as well as all those other discs. I couldn't afford to buy any of Rieu's albums brand new, nor would I want to. Don't worry MI, this is just a diversion for me, I was interested in hearing some of his music for myself after recently reading his biography. But I wouldn't judge Rieu, his late father was one of the top conductors of the Netherlands, and Andre played for about 20 years under him in the Limburgh Symphony Orchestra, accompanying some of the world's top musicians in concert. The renowned conductor Franz Bruggen had heard Rieu play as a boy and encouraged him to study music at the Netherlands conservatory, which he went on to do. Rieu started his own quintet in the 1970's, playing light salon music on the side, but it wasn't until the early 1990's that he gave up his day job with the Limburghs and put everything into establishing his own orchestra. Reading his story, I do admire his work in unearthing previously lost repertoire which before him was only heard on 48 & 78 rpm records. He has also done a fair deal of good charity work (which he only mentions in the book to get people to donate to his causes).

I just heard the Rieu disc last night, and it's not bad for what it's worth. I think he plays very well, even though he's a bit more restrained than I would like. He doesn't hog the limelight and many of the tracks are purely orchestral or feature other musicians in his 42 piece orchestra doing solos. There are even 2 tracks with choir. My only quibble (& it's probably a major one) is that Rieu's arrangments cut the pieces considerably. Eg. my favourite track on the disc, Beethoven's Romance in F which Rieu plays very well, is just under 5 minutes, whereas the orignal is probably more than double that. The disc has 18 tracks, but I would have done with half that amount, it probably would have been better if he'd just played the originals. The recording was done in his own studio, and the acoustic is very rich, it sounds like it was done in a cathedral.

But I'm definitely not as highbrow as some people seem to be around here. I basically listen to all kinds of classical music, apart from opera. & like many here, I listen to a fair amount of non-classical stuff as well. I like the variety. I even have some Mantovani in my collection. I don't think that the classical musicians playing the lighter repertoire are any worse than those who play the "serious" stuff...

[Mirror Image]

But I'm definitely not as highbrow as some people seem to be around here. I basically listen to all kinds of classical music, apart from opera. & like many here, I listen to a fair amount of non-classical stuff as well. I like the variety. I even have some Mantovani in my collection. I don't think that the classical musicians playing the lighter repertoire are any worse than those who play the "serious" stuff...

Perhaps your standards just aren't that high? Rieu is a joke. In fact, he's worse than a joke at least a joke has some substance. There's a difference between playing music you love and playing music to make a quick buck. The only problem is serious musicians won't take you that seriously. Now, there's no harm in a musician who is talented making it big and selling out concerts, but we're not talking about a good musician when we're talking about Rieu. Miles Davis played the music he wanted to play and people still flocked to his concerts, so it's a tricky thing for sure, but if you're in it for the love of the music and to bear your soul to the world, then that's what is important. Rieu doesn't have anything interesting to say with music, because he's not a creative musician. It's that simple.

[DavidW]

Haha you two (Sid and MI) remind me of Siskel and Ebert!

Well cool Sid, the way you put it, that cd doesn't sound like a total waste after all.

[Sid]

Perhaps your standards just aren't that high?

Well maybe I don't have any "standards!"  When listening to music, I mainly care about engagement. As the great Otto Klemperer said, comparing himself to Bruno Walter - "He's a moralist, I'm an immoralist!" Mind you, I'd like to think that I have a wide range - I listen to virtually everything in the classical realm written between the Middle Ages & the present. I'm definitely not stuck in a niche. As I said, I especially admire Rieu for reviving muc of the light pre-WW2 repertoire that had been gathering dust in archives - salon, dance and operetta music. I like them too, and I think it's good that he's been getting this stuff out there for the past 20-30 years.

Rieu is a joke. In fact, he's worse than a joke at least a joke has some substance. There's a difference between playing music you love and playing music to make a quick buck.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!! Rieu never aimed "to make a quick buck." His early career path was the same as any other "serious" musician. He took lessons in a number of instruments from an early age, finally deciding to major in the violin when he did his degree at the Netherlands Conservatory. Then he played for about 20 years in the Limburgh Symphony Orchestra, one of the top orchestras in the country, under the baton of his late father. He only started playing light salon music on the side in the 1970's, forming his own quintet called the "Maastricht Salon Orchestra." He played for years without getting much financial return out of this, his orchestra job was how he paid the bills and supported his family. It was not until the early 1990's when light music had gained some traction, that Rieu decided to throw in his day job and put all of his money and strength behind forming his own orchestra. You wouldn't believe, but it was actually VERY HARD for him to get a major label behind recording his first album. But that first album topped the charts in the Netherlands, and the rest is history. He is successful and rich now, touring the world etc., but his beginnings weren't very different from that of other "serious" musicians, and he has always put music first and foremost. Actually, he says that his wife Marjorie is the "business brains" part of the partnership...

The only problem is serious musicians won't take you that seriously.

Wrong again, my friend. Even the great Riccardo Chailly is an admirer of Rieu. When Rieu was in the audience at a concert conducted by Chailly, the Italian played him a compliment playing one of Rieu's arrangements as an encore. & it was after a Mahler symphony!!! The audience loved it. If the audience at the Concergebouw hall - where Rieu has played, btw - can lighten up & enjoy something like that in that "serious" context, why is this a problem for you?

Well cool Sid, the way you put it, that cd doesn't sound like a total waste after all.

Yes, it's not too bad. Not part of my main diet, as you would say, but it's well crafted and enjoyable for what it's worth...

[eyeresist]

My only quibble (& it's probably a major one) is that Rieu's arrangments cut the pieces considerably. Eg. my favourite track on the disc, Beethoven's Romance in F which Rieu plays very well, is just under 5 minutes, whereas the orignal is probably more than double that. The disc has 18 tracks, but I would have done with half that amount, it probably would have been better if he'd just played the originals....

Sounds like he would have fitted well into the 19th c. concertising scene.

But I'm definitely not as highbrow as some people seem to be around here. I basically listen to all kinds of classical music, apart from opera. & like many here, I listen to a fair amount of non-classical stuff as well. I like the variety. I even have some Mantovani in my collection. I don't think that the classical musicians playing the lighter repertoire are any worse than those who play the "serious" stuff...

From what I've read, great composers and musicians tend to have broader tastes than the purists who follow them. Louis Armstrong liked Mantovani (he thought the sound of the strings was amazing), and Charlie Parker liked both Varese and country music. Brahms dug those "common" Hungarian dances and admired J Strauss II. Mahler collected "Hooked on Klezmer" LPs.

That said, when I see those eleventydozen Rieu DVDs in the store, racked up into something resembling the 2001 monolith, I avert my gaze.

[Mirror Image]

Well maybe I don't have any "standards!"  When listening to music, I mainly care about engagement. As the great Otto Klemperer said, comparing himself to Bruno Walter - "He's a moralist, I'm an immoralist!" Mind you, I'd like to think that I have a wide range - I listen to virtually everything in the classical realm written between the Middle Ages & the present. I'm definitely not stuck in a niche. As I said, I especially admire Rieu for reviving muc of the light pre-WW2 repertoire that had been gathering dust in archives - salon, dance and operetta music. I like them too, and I think it's good that he's been getting this stuff out there for the past 20-30 years.

Good for you, Sid. I'm glad to see you expand your horizons. We all enjoy what we enjoy in the end. You can listen to Alvin and the Chipmunks sing Christmas carols it wouldn't make a bit of difference in how I view music. You spend your time listening to what you enjoy and I'll do the same.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!! Rieu never aimed "to make a quick buck." His early career path was the same as any other "serious" musician. He took lessons in a number of instruments from an early age, finally deciding to major in the violin when he did his degree at the Netherlands Conservatory. Then he played for about 20 years in the Limburgh Symphony Orchestra, one of the top orchestras in the country, under the baton of his late father. He only started playing light salon music on the side in the 1970's, forming his own quintet called the "Maastricht Salon Orchestra." He played for years without getting much financial return out of this, his orchestra job was how he paid the bills and supported his family. It was not until the early 1990's when light music had gained some traction, that Rieu decided to throw in his day job and put all of his money and strength behind forming his own orchestra. You wouldn't believe, but it was actually VERY HARD for him to get a major label behind recording his first album. But that first album topped the charts in the Netherlands, and the rest is history. He is successful and rich now, touring the world etc., but his beginnings weren't very different from that of other "serious" musicians, and he has always put music first and foremost. Actually, he says that his wife Marjorie is the "business brains" part of the partnership...

He may have never sat out to make a quick buck, but he is now and he's apart of the same group as Kenny G and Yanni. I'm sorry I will forever be in full disagreement with your views of Rieu. If he was a serious musician, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing now.

Wrong again, my friend. Even the great Riccardo Chailly is an admirer of Rieu. When Rieu was in the audience at a concert conducted by Chailly, the Italian played him a compliment playing one of Rieu's arrangements as an encore. & it was after a Mahler symphony!!! The audience loved it. If the audience at the Concergebouw hall - where Rieu has played, btw - can lighten up & enjoy something like that in that "serious" context, why is this a problem for you?

I did not know this, but, then again, I'm not apart of the classical mainstream concert goers either, so it's not surprising. It's not a problem for me, but apparently it's a problem for you that you can't accept that I think Rieu is a mediocre musician? I was scrolling through the channels one night and saw him play on PBS and it about made me laugh. It was just that pathetic. The way he smiled at the audience made me almost vomit.

[Sid]

...If he was a serious musician, he wouldn't be doing what he's doing now...it's a problem for you that you can't accept that I think Rieu is a mediocre musician?

You seem to think that just because someone plays light classical music, they are not as professional as someone who does. I disagree with that strongly. I mean there were quite a few great violinists of the past who made many recordings of encores, show tunes and salon pieces, eg. Fritz Kreisler (who even composed a few of these "lollipops" himself) & Yehudi Menuhin are two I can think of (doubtless there are many more, but I'm not an expert in the violin repertoire). Light does not necessarily mean lightweight. Andre Rieu is a professionally skilled musician, just as experienced in playing "serious" orchestral and chamber music as any other musician around. No wonder, they all need this solid background as a foundation to whatever they do.

...I was scrolling through the channels one night and saw him play on PBS and it about made me laugh. It was just that pathetic. The way he smiled at the audience made me almost vomit.

Just because he likes to build rapport with his audience, tell a few anecdotes, etc. is no reason to say that. He just wants people to have a good time. Is there anything wrong or amiss about that? He's not advertising a performance of Beethoven's Violin Concerto and then playing the Minuet in G. The way you put it, it's like Rieu is not delivering the goods in some way, and I'd say he does what he does with commitment and professionalism. Even people like Riccardo Chailly are of that opinion...

I don't have any Rieu records and don't expect to get any, but I don't see what there is to get worked up over.  He hires an orchestra and performs his arrangements of Strauss Waltzes.  What's the big deal?

Exactly. It seems that there are too many highbrows on this forum. You simply can't win around here. Member John of Glasgow said he didn't like Schoenberg or Stockhausen a few days ago & got pounded. Now I try to give Andre Rieu a go and get a right royal hammering. I mean, what's the deal? Can't people be honest about their tastes without getting hammered? I mean, I have a wide taste in classical, and I'm sure John of Glasgow is the same. A lot of people around here seem to be welded onto music of the period c.1850-1950. Some people dismiss major figures in classical music who came before or after that period with the drop of a hat. May I be so bold enough as (gasp!) to think that that kind of dismissive/judgemental opinion is more a case for concern than someone who doesn't like Stockhausen or Schoenberg or someone who dares to appreciate Andre Rieu?...

[Willoughby earl of Itacarius]

. But I wouldn't judge Rieu, his late father was one of the top conductors of the Netherlands,

No he wasn't, just a provincial conductor, not good not bad.

[Sid]

No he wasn't, just a provincial conductor, not good not bad.

Well, I think many conductors would be glad to be "provincial" in that way, if they could conduct their orchestras accompanying the likes of Menuhin, Oistrakh, Kogan and Grumiaux to name four with whom Rieu's father worked regularly back in the mid c20th. These guys obviously had a lot of respect for him, as well as his family, they came as guests with him for dinner when they were performing with him and others in the Netherlands.

All I'm saying is that from a young age, Andre Rieu was just as steeped in music as others of his generation who went on to do different things, such as Itzakh Perlman. People might disdain Rieu for being too much of an entertainer, but the truth is that he is just as much a professional as any other "serious" classical musician on the world stage today...

[Florestan]

A lot of people around here seem to be welded onto music of the period c.1850-1950. Some people dismiss major figures in classical music who came before or after that period with the drop of a hat. May I be so bold enough as (gasp!) to think that that kind of dismissive/judgemental opinion is more a case for concern than someone who doesn't like Stockhausen or Schoenberg or someone who dares to appreciate Andre Rieu?...

Well said, Sid! I'm in total agreement.

I haven't heard / seen Rieu, but comments like "he's too popular", "he makes big buck", "he caters to the low tastes of his audience", "he paraphrases and condenses larger works" reminds me of Paganini and Liszt. I'll certainly give him a try. 

[Mirror Image]

You seem to think that just because someone plays light classical music, they are not as professional as someone who does. I disagree with that strongly. I mean there were quite a few great violinists of the past who made many recordings of encores, show tunes and salon pieces, eg. Fritz Kreisler (who even composed a few of these "lollipops" himself) & Yehudi Menuhin are two I can think of (doubtless there are many more, but I'm not an expert in the violin repertoire). Light does not necessarily mean lightweight. Andre Rieu is a professionally skilled musician, just as experienced in playing "serious" orchestral and chamber music as any other musician around. No wonder, they all need this solid background as a foundation to whatever they do.

Rieu is a sell-out. Accept my opinion or don't. If he was a highly skilled musician, then he would be playing concerti of composers instead of playing the bubble gum arranged pop he plays now.

Just because he likes to build rapport with his audience, tell a few anecdotes, etc. is no reason to say that. He just wants people to have a good time. Is there anything wrong or amiss about that? He's not advertising a performance of Beethoven's Violin Concerto and then playing the Minuet in G. The way you put it, it's like Rieu is not delivering the goods in some way, and I'd say he does what he does with commitment and professionalism. Even people like Riccardo Chailly are of that opinion...

I don't care what he does, I don't listen to his or Yanni's muzak, so it doesn't matter to me if people enjoy him or not in the end. It's your time, not mine.

Exactly. It seems that there are too many highbrows on this forum. You simply can't win around here. Member John of Glasgow said he didn't like Schoenberg or Stockhausen a few days ago & got pounded. Now I try to give Andre Rieu a go and get a right royal hammering. I mean, what's the deal? Can't people be honest about their tastes without getting hammered? I mean, I have a wide taste in classical, and I'm sure John of Glasgow is the same. A lot of people around here seem to be welded onto music of the period c.1850-1950. Some people dismiss major figures in classical music who came before or after that period with the drop of a hat. May I be so bold enough as (gasp!) to think that that kind of dismissive/judgemental opinion is more a case for concern than someone who doesn't like Stockhausen or Schoenberg or someone who dares to appreciate Andre Rieu?...

As I said, you can listen to what you want to, Sid. It doesn't matter to me, but this is a forum where opinions are expressed, so why can't you deal with someone who dislikes what you like? I mean don't you have a thicker skin than that? My opinions are attacked all the time, especially if it's a negative one against a composer who somebody else likes, but you don't see me making a big deal about it. If you like Rieu then that's great, but there are people who don't and don't like what he's "selling," so why can't you accept that?

[Sid]

Well said, Sid! I'm in total agreement.

I haven't heard / seen Rieu, but comments like "he's too popular", "he makes big buck", "he caters to the low tastes of his audience", "he paraphrases and condenses larger works" reminds me of Paganini and Liszt. I'll certainly give him a try. 

Well, some of his arrangements do kind of "condense" the originals, some don't. Depends on the piece & the album. But arrangements are exactly that, arrangements. It's rare if an arrangement is better than an original. All I'm saying is that the music of Rieu that I have heard definitely shows that he knows what he's doing and that he can play his instrument and direct his ensemble just like any other classical musician out there. The musicality, the professionalism, the standard is there, but the genre is different - it's light classical, not "serious" classical...

[Mirror Image]

All I'm saying is that the music of Rieu that I have heard definitely shows that he knows what he's doing

Rieu has a very intelligent wife. That's all I'm saying.

CHA CHING