Electric guitar in classical music

[ibanezmonster]

The only thing that comes even remotely close to the sound of Branca's Symphonies is the music of Sonic Youth. But I'm not familiar with his output other than the 1st symphony (just have heard clips here and there of the others)...

[eyeresist]

Schnittke's use of electric guitar is quite prominent in Rozhdy's recordings of the early symphonies. I thought the instrument sounded shabby and its role was superfluous. But then it's probably because I grew up listening to rock guitar that the classical "electric guitar" sounds anaemic to me. The instrument is capable of such blistering power, so why give it these inconsequential noodling lines, which either are inaudible or just sound "wrong"? Distortion, feedback, powerchords - heck, even that annoying Steve Vai-type widdly-widdly playing - These elements of the electric guitar sound could bring much more musical interest than straightforward, uncharacterised melodic lines.

[Mirror Image]

Schnittke's use of electric guitar is quite prominent in Rozhdy's recordings of the early symphonies. I thought the instrument sounded shabby and its role was superfluous. But then it's probably because I grew up listening to rock guitar that the classical "electric guitar" sounds anaemic to me. The instrument is capable of such blistering power, so why give it these inconsequential noodling lines, which either are inaudible or just sound "wrong"? Distortion, feedback, powerchords - heck, even that annoying Steve Vai-type widdly-widdly playing - These elements of the electric guitar sound could bring much more musical interest than straightforward, uncharacterised melodic lines.

The electric guitar in classical music sounds wrong because it's not used in a really effective way in most cases. Even though I've been playing the guitar for 20 years, my primary concern as a guitarist is as a colorist. The electric guitar in classical music shouldn't be used as a lead instrument in my opinion, because its timbre should be apart of the overall sound of the orchestra. This is where tone comes in and applying effects such as reverb and delay to tone of the guitar. I think distortion is too distracting in classical music and with distortion the music becomes something else in my view. I wouldn't want to see somebody up on stage playing Steve Vai-licks behind an orchestra, which has been done to death.

[eyeresist]

I think distortion is too distracting in classical music and with distortion the music becomes something else in my view.

I confess it, I love the power chords in the Dune soundtrack!

http://www.youtube.com/v/WUgaw6MyF0k

[escher]

The only thing that comes even remotely close to the sound of Branca's Symphonies is the music of Sonic Youth. But I'm not familiar with his output other than the 1st symphony (just have heard clips here and there of the others)...

yes, the sonic youth were very influenced by Branca. As i've said there's also Rhys Chatham, but i don't know him too well

[Luke]

This colouristic use of the electric guitar is precisely the reason that Bryars' After the Requiem (as mentioned by Lethe in the OP) is such a fully successful piece. It is the only classical piece I know of that uses the instrument in this way, and it's the only one I know of whose use of the instrument doesn't seem weak in some way. Even in Tippett - and I [i[love[/i] Tippett - its use is problematic.

After the Requiem - give it a try!

[Grazioso]

Schnittke's use of electric guitar is quite prominent in Rozhdy's recordings of the early symphonies. I thought the instrument sounded shabby and its role was superfluous. But then it's probably because I grew up listening to rock guitar that the classical "electric guitar" sounds anaemic to me. The instrument is capable of such blistering power, so why give it these inconsequential noodling lines, which either are inaudible or just sound "wrong"? Distortion, feedback, powerchords - heck, even that annoying Steve Vai-type widdly-widdly playing - These elements of the electric guitar sound could bring much more musical interest than straightforward, uncharacterised melodic lines.

The electric guitar in classical music sounds wrong because it's not used in a really effective way in most cases. Even though I've been playing the guitar for 20 years, my primary concern as a guitarist is as a colorist. The electric guitar in classical music shouldn't be used as a lead instrument in my opinion, because its timbre should be apart of the overall sound of the orchestra. This is where tone comes in and applying effects such as reverb and delay to tone of the guitar. I think distortion is too distracting in classical music and with distortion the music becomes something else in my view. I wouldn't want to see somebody up on stage playing Steve Vai-licks behind an orchestra, which has been done to death.

I think the potential problem with employing a heavily distorted powerchord approach is the cognitive dissonance you might engender by merging a sound so closely associated with hard rock/metal with the expected sound world of classical music. Then again, I could imagine percussive, heavy riffing merging well with some avant-garde styles.

I think a coloristic/ambient/textural approach (think of guys like Andy Summers, the Edge, Robert Fripp, etc.) could blend in all kinds of interesting ways with the existing orchestral palette. An imaginative composer with a feel for orchestration could have a total field day exploring all the effects available now, Ebow, etc.

[escher]

I think a coloristic/ambient/textural approach (think of guys like Andy Summers, the Edge, Robert Fripp, etc.) could blend in all kinds of interesting ways with the existing orchestral palette. An imaginative composer with a feel for orchestration could have a total field day exploring all the effects available now, Ebow, etc.

yes, for example i find the music of Fennesz boring because is too much repetitive, but i wonder what a good composer could make with sounds like these (it's all processed guitar):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnIfgITYzuY

another thing is why composers have necessarily integrate electric guitar with a standard orchestra, and not to compose for example with guitar, bass, drums, electric keyboard

[Mirror Image]

another thing is why composers have necessarily integrate electric guitar with a standard orchestra, and not to compose for example with guitar, bass, drums, electric keyboard

Steve Reich composed a piece called 2 x 5 which was scored for four electric guitars, two pianos, two bass guitars, and two drum sets.

[karlhenning]

another thing is why composers have necessarily integrate electric guitar with a standard orchestra, and not to compose for example with guitar, bass, drums, electric keyboard

One could argue that this is what Robt Fripp has done with King Crimson, or that Genesis have done as a "collective."

[chasmaniac]

One could argue that this is what Robt Fripp has done with King Crimson, or that Genesis have done as a "collective."

Discipline and all, with Adrian Belew. The sound of those guitar arrangements keeps occuring to me as I read this thread. No power chords, but plenty of sinuous power! The style had much in common with minimalism, methinks.

[snyprrr]

This is sad.

I just uncovered two more pretty tame/lame electric guitar pieces by prominent Composers:

Tristan Murail Vampyr!

Fausto Romitelli TV Trash Dance (something like that)

They're both on YouTube. Very disappointed.


Just as I was writing this, the De Lucia/DiMeola/McLaughlin "One Night in San Francisco" pops into my head. I chuckle. No Composer, to my knowledge, has EVER written anything comparable to what has come from the Great Guitarists of the last 50 years. Seriously, Composer guys,... haven't you ever heard Eruption?


Marc Monnet eros machina (1977-78)

This is the only thing I have in my Library, and, it's much better than those two above. It's for electric bass and guitar, and, sounds for all the world like a Tony Levin 'stick' jam with Frippertronics. It makes one able to imagine what Xenakis might have done with a 'Rock Band',... or anyone, for that matter. I do hear that Reich has something Metal?

[snyprrr]

widdly-widdly

aaaaaaaaaaaaa...hahahahahahahahahaha


I have to disagree. I love that cheesy "Composers trying to be hip" '60s bad electric guitar,... like the equivalent of the guitar solo from Eight Miles High (sorry, it's a terribly played, yet delicious, solo!). Every TV Show from the '70s had that Tommy Tedesco kitchen-sink studio sound. A little fuzz, a lot of reverb, and a tone row, and poof!, instant Exploitation Soundtrack!! Add JazzFlute as necessary.

In the 'Medium is the Message' Theology, the electric guitar, and Classical Music, intersect,... somewhere... in The Twilight Zone! Meaning, that with the Technology, comes a NewMedium in which to absorb it. Has anyone really ever done an Electric Symphony? Ohhh,... that's funny just thinking about it. Stuff like flanging being treated with the care of a ToneRow??

I know,... this get's the Boundaries mixed up. But, the point is, the electric guitar, as a Calvinist Manifestation, has a Pre-Destined Role to play, and Classical Composers, generally, have totally misunderstood its Role.



I can't even imagine writing a 'piece' for electric guitar solo, based on anything/everything I've ever heard. I mean, are you using effects? I think most spoiled brat teenage guitarists in the world today probably have an IRCAM type Boss/Roland Interface MIDI Xtravagonzo setup that would boggle Phil Manzanera.

I have a...mmm... 'Demonstration' of what I can do with my Setup, and, it's pretty well 'written out', but still, it's nothing that anyone couldn't do if they thought of it. I compose a 'backdrop' through DigitalDelay, and various effects like the GuitarSynthesizer, and then play a sort of Symphonic Guitar on top of that. I mean, hey, is it a 'Classical' piece? Based on what I've heard from... hrhm... 'Real' Composers, us regular old guitarists can out-Imagine them any day of the week.

Go again and listen to Eruption. Just do it!

[eyeresist]

I think the potential problem with employing a heavily distorted powerchord approach is the cognitive dissonance you might engender by merging a sound so closely associated with hard rock/metal with the expected sound world of classical music.

Depends on the music. I think powerchords might work well in Bruckner.

[Dax]

A late work by Frank Martin - Poemes de la mort - uses 3 electric guitars.

Gavin Bryars use of the electric guitar is almost always with eBow.

Gruppen?

[Luke]

Gavin Bryars use of the electric guitar is almost always with eBow.

Really? Am annoyed that I, a big 20+ Bryars CD fan, didn't know this. It's not mentioned in any liner notes I've read - and on the GB website, only one work is mentioned as using it (the Archangel Trip). I'm sure Bill Frisell, playing After the Requiem, doesn't use it.

[karlhenning]

Hmm, Bill Frisell of Disfarmer fame? Small musical world . . . .

[jochanaan]

Hmm, Bill Frisell of Disfarmer fame? Small musical world . . . .

Indeed.  Bill Frisell is a big name here in Denver; I know people who have played with him.  But being a jazz guitarist, he doesn't use distortion nor power chords...

[Luke]

Indeed.  Bill Frisell is a big name here in Denver; I know people who have played with him.  But being a jazz guitarist, he doesn't use distortion nor power chords...

But download the file I attached on the first or second page of this thread - Frisell in superbly distorted, watery sound in the Bryars piece I was talking about. Still my favourite piece by that composer.

[snyprrr]

Indeed.  Bill Frisell is a big name here in Denver; I know people who have played with him.  But being a jazz guitarist, he doesn't use distortion nor power chords...

Ah,... listen to his Live to Tell!

As I've been trying to blindly duplicate Frisell, I've got it to the volume control, and a delay,... I don't think it's an e-bow, but rather the volume control (foot or hand). I like his sound.